Problems inserting Hastings oil control rings

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olympus

olympus

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Hi Guys
Rebuilding the bottom end i decided to use the pistons inserted into barrel method, the only problem i cant get the piston to descend past the Hastings lower oil control ring (three piece ring), i have a very decent ring compressor & using copious amounts of oil & Graphogen.

I had already done this but once again checked all the rigs gaps, spot on perfect. Checked the piston to bore clearance... spot on
Assembled everything again, i still cant get the piston the descend past the lower oil ring....

So I'm hoping some of our most knowledgeable brethren have experienced this problem & know what the fix is

Thank you

 
Have you checked that the oil ring assemblies are not "too deep", and bottom out internally (in the piston's ring groove) BEFORE the external diameter is fully compressed to the bore dimension?

"Don't ask how I know this..."
 
Many of the noted engine builders on this forum use the finger method. It helps if you are inserting the piston assembly from the bottom where there is a chamfer at the mouth of the bore that will aid in compressing the rails of the 3 piece oil control rings, as well as the two others. I made a "tool" out of a piece of plastic, but not the type that can shatter (some flexibility), you can use a small screw driver if you're really good, I'm not willing to scar the piston or any of the rings, why I use the plastic "finger", if needed, usually not.

This fitment is so important that I don't care how long it takes to get right.
 
Are you referring to the centre spacer between the two rings??? to be honest i only gapped the two rings.....
I need to check this..
I have to ask.. how do you know this? and is it a known problem
 
I very recently had your same problem. I even bought another set of rings and had the same problem. I chalked it up to not using this new method and managed to finally fit the oil ring inside the cylinder. There is a lot of resistance to piston movement when trying to push the piston up and down by hand but if kicking it seems normal. I am still unsure but the motor runs well.
 
I struggled for a long time to get the center "warpy" ring to sit correctly, with the top & bottom scrapers sitting properly on the "shoulders" of the warpy ring (look closely at the profile of it). That is the only way it will ever work.

That warpy ring should never be "trimmed to fit". It provides the tension for the scraper rings. If it is trimmed, they won't work properly.
 
I had the same problem. My ring compressor (a professional mechanics tool inherited from my Dad) would not close up on the ratchet notch needed to squeeze those expander rings.

I finally solved the problem by wrapping a thin (about 0.005" or so) springy metal strip about 0.5" wide around the rings, then cinching up with the ring compressor over the metal strip.

I worked from the bottom (crank side) with the barrels upside down on my bench, clamping only the compression rings with the shim strip. Once the compression rings were in the bore, I moved the shim strip and ring compressor onto the oil control rings. The rest was a piece of cake.

As GrandPaul notes, never trim the expander rings.

Slick
 
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I had issues with Hastings rings too - it didn't help that they came with Hepolite pistons and had no instructions with them regarding the expander rings.
Original AE type 3-piece ones have very little tension in them, were easy to install and always worked fine. The Hastings ones were a fight - the force required to get the rings into the bores was nerve-wracking! My ring clamps wouldn't do the job either.
I found it best to mount the pistons individually into the bores then offer the whole lot up to the rods and fit the gudgeon pins last.

Latest Hepolite pistons seem to have dropped Hastings rings: 'Hepolite piston rings are premium quality and manufactured in the UK'.
They're now Goetze/AE
 
I hope the AE rings will fit EMGO pistons? I would love to fit a 3 piece oil ring with just my fingers rather than the last battle I went through.
When you finally fit the Hastings oil ring try shoving the piston by hand down the barrel. The force it requires is incredible. It's hard to believe it requires so much pressure to control the oil on the cylinder wall. This is only the third time I've used this method of piston installation...it works well..
 
I once bought a Wiseco 1196cc big bore kit for my XS1100, the top rings supplied were correct, the oil rings were mis-sorted/packaged.
So, funny (odd) things happen sometimes.
 
I'm trying to imagine how to put the pistons in from the top. I understand the desire since I can no longer hold/lower the barrel using one hand and pinch the rings with the other.

Look here about 80% of the way down to see my new way: http://gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton_1974.aspx. What you can't see is that the wires in the plate above the cylinders suspend the barrels from my engine hoist. Doing it this way required no strength and once setup, I had the pistons in the cylinders within seconds.
 
seattle##gs said:
I hope the AE rings will fit EMGO pistons? I would love to fit a 3 piece oil ring with just my fingers rather than the last battle I went through.
When you finally fit the Hastings oil ring try shoving the piston by hand down the barrel. The force it requires is incredible. It's hard to believe it requires so much pressure to control the oil on the cylinder wall. This is only the third time I've used this method of piston installation...it works well..
Click to expand...

The new 'Hepolite' brand pistons are EMGO, so pretty sure they'll fit.
Totally agree about the having to force the piston down the barrel. Not a great experience...
 
I have always done it this way, with piston ring compressors.

Problems inserting Hastings oil control rings

However, based on the @comnoz method, I did a project bike by hand last weekend, and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be

 
A question regarding the Hastings rings: if they really are as tight in the bore as described by a few people here, and they really do exert that much pressures outwards onto the cylinder walls, is that bad for ring / bore life? And performance?
 
There is a thread somewhere regarding the 'crinkly' centre ring being too big and whether or not you should trim them. I had the same problem with my Atlas, the oil ring would not go up the bore, because the crinkle ring was one notch too big. Rightly or wrongly I trimmed it and I have had no problem since. You may want to look at replacing them with ones of the correct size rather than trimming.
The other thing I might say is using Graphogen on new bores. I did this on my Commando and the rings simply did not bed in as the Graphogen is such an effective lubricant. I ended up having to have the bores honed.
Cheers
 
Gilesy said:
There is a thread somewhere regarding the 'crinkly' centre ring being too big and whether or not you should trim them. I had the same problem with my Atlas, the oil ring would not go up the bore, because the crinkle ring was one notch too big. Rightly or wrongly I trimmed it and I have had no problem since. You may want to look at replacing them with ones of the correct size rather than trimming.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Yes, I had to trim the expander on one set and I had folks calling me all sorts of names! The bike was great afterwards.
Goetze/AE rings for me...
 
RE; "the 'crinkly' centre ring being too big and whether or not you should trim them"

As a general rule the 'crinkly' centre ring they should never be trimmed.

I usually fit this on the piston on its own to see if it fits into the piston grove OK. If not see if you can get away with overlapping a step or two then fit the oil control rings.
 
I trimmed mine last time I fitted new rings to my 850 back in 1998, engine still runs well, no smoke and no excessive oil consumption. They were Hepolite Apex rings std bore. Before trimming I bought a second set of rings thinking the first set were wrong but they were the same as the first. Pistons are the factory fitted Stds.
 
B+Bogus said:
Yes, I had to trim the expander on one set and I had folks calling me all sorts of names! The bike was great afterwards.
Goetze/AE rings for me...
Click to expand...
Hi, where did you found your Goetze rings , all the suppliers I had checked sell USA made rings (Hasting or ??)...it was a pain to fit that oil ring !
 
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