Wiring to kill switch MK111 commando

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Jed

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Hi

I have recently become the proud owner of a MK 111 commando I have been wanting since my teenage years (the bikes were new then)
It was imported from the UK and was in pretty fair condition given its age
I have pulled it to bits and am doing a ground up restore
The bike has an SU carby and is otherwise concourse but the wires to the kill switch were not connected to anything inside the switch housing and I am at a loss as to how these connect to the 3 point switch
The switch is intact and has 2 contacts in a plate that sits under the switch lever and while these seem to be the obvious place to connect them there is no sign of there ever being any wires connected to them
So I am wondering if something is missing or if these wires can be connected without anything else without any problem
I assume it would not matter which wire went to which terminal as they both have the same function unless I am right off the track which is possible

I have stacks of photos of the dismantling and will do the same when reassembling and will post photos if anyone is interested
I am new to this site and it will take a while to sus it out

Cheers
 
Welcome to the forum Jed.

Jed said:
The switch is intact and has 2 contacts in a plate that sits under the switch lever and while these seem to be the obvious place to connect them there is no sign of there ever being any wires connected to them
Click to expand...

There would normally be a white wire (power IN from Ign.Sw) and a white/yellow (power OUT to ballast, coils etc.) connected to the contacts on the small mica board of the kill switch assembly.

Wiring to kill switch MK111 commando


Wiring to kill switch MK111 commando


Wiring to kill switch MK111 commando
 
Hi Jed and welcome to the forum! As luck would have it the wiring to my kill switch is right where I'm headed next for my trouble shooting efforts to find out whats wrong with my '75. Thanks for the photo's and info L.A.B. ----And Jed everyone will be interested in your photos of your disassembly and build up. Cj
 
Thank you L.A.B for such speedy and helpful info it tells me exactly what I need to know and I am stoked for the photos
I will get a few photos up shortly but as yet I have not got down to too much detail but am just about to pull the motor out
One of the Norton owners from the classic bike club I belong to tells me I have to takt the primary case off to get the motor out (in order to paint the frame) but I have read in the manual it can be done without removing it
He also recommended powder coating the frame instead of 2 pack but I am not convinced about that as I want it as original as possible
What do you recon?:D
 
Jed said:
One of the Norton owners from the classic bike club I belong to tells me I have to takt the primary case off to get the motor out (in order to paint the frame) but I have read in the manual it can be done without removing it
Click to expand...

Yes it's possible-but wouldn't you also want to repaint the engine cradle, although it's not actually part of the frame it is a rather substantial piece, in which case, the whole thing (primary-engine-gearbox) will have to be separated. Removing/replacing the primary is all part of the learning process and gives you the chance to inspect certain components like the electric starter sprag, anti-backfire mechanism and clutch assembly. You will of course need a couple of special tools to remove the clutch diaphragm spring and the engine sprocket.
 
Thanks again

Looks like the primary case will need to come off as I do want to paint all the frame components. The guy from the club has loaned me the clutch tool as I will be putting a new barnett in and I will have to track down the sprocket tool when I get to that stage
The engineering of these bikes is pretty amazing for the time but changing the front chain sprocket is a pretty major job.
Needless to say sprockets and chain will be new when

Thanks once again for your help. I have tried to follow your instructions for posting photos but no joy as yet
I think the set up may be different between Aus and the US but I will sort it out eventually or post a link to a blog

Cheers
 
Jed said:
I have tried to follow your instructions for posting photos but no joy as yet
I think the set up may be different between Aus and the US but I will sort it out eventually or post a link to a blog
Click to expand...

If you need more help, contact me through the forum PM service and I will guide you through the process step by step if necessary.
 
Taking the stator off I was concerned when a few small pieces fell out
I could not see where they came from unti I realised the bearing inside the front sprocket was broken
Glad I took LAB's advise about inspecting all the components
 
Wow glad you found out about that bearing the good way! I found a primary chain link once while changing the oil in my BSA. I don't know how long the chain was like that but I was glad I found out before it came apart.
 
Jed said:
Taking the stator off I was concerned when a few small pieces fell out
I could not see where they came from unti I realised the bearing inside the front sprocket was broken
Glad I took LAB's advise about inspecting all the components
Click to expand...

I assume you mean the one-way sprag clutch for the starter motor? Those little bits are probably pieces of the internal springs. Be careful when you remove it as the "dogbones" may fall out. If you can keep it all together, it may still be salvaged. If not that little clutch is a $175 item. If your starter motor does not work and you want to keep it kick start only, you can remove all that gear train.
 
I think (hope ) RON L is talking about the starter motor
That is still in one piece and I have yet to find what a sprag is
The bearing I am talking about is inside the front triple sprocket on the shaft which has the stator on rhe end
The roller bearings do look like dog bones though on the profile and I can't see how the bearing could be salvaged (except by an expert) or how it has anything to do with the starter
I will hang on to all the bits just in case. In the meantime looks like more research while the list of parts grows

Cheers and thanks for the input
 
Jed said:
I think (hope ) RON L is talking about the starter motor
That is still in one piece and I have yet to find what a sprag is
Click to expand...

The starter sprag (one way clutch) is item [18] the link below - part 064733.
Wiring to kill switch MK111 commando


Jed said:
The bearing I am talking about is inside the front triple sprocket on the shaft which has the stator on rhe end
Click to expand...

There is a also a needle roller bearing 064711 [20] inside the drive gear, is that the bearing which has broken up? The needle roller is reasonably cheap, the sprag however, is not.

http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton% ... &Plate=012

http://www.oldbritts.com/e_start_gears.html
http://www.oldbritts.com/e_start_backfire.html

[Edit] I've just checked your blog, and it is the sprag which is certainly beyond economic repair. Also, the blog photos show the primary chain is worn out.
 
It seems it is in fact the sprag bearing that has broken, Ron L was spot on
It is a 14 tooth bearing cracked in one place completely snapped out in another
I guess the 18 tooth will be the obvious replacement
(see picture on my blog) I will chat later about posting photos on this site
The bike looks good but has a few issues which is to be expected. You can never be sure about any used bike
Its overall condition is good
Another surprise was the springs inside the tensioner were broken, these seem pretty light given the force acting on them

More surprises to come no doubt when the head comes off
There did not seem to be much oil in the gearbox and what was in there was like thick mushroom soup

I could be at this for quite a while :) Just as well my 2007 bonny is always ready to go!
 
Thanks L.A.B. for the links with that info
It is the sprag bearing that is broken but everything else looks fine
The price from Old Britts is about $100 which is better than the $200 other posts have mentioned
I should have the engine out this weekend (between house renovating) and ready to pain and start putting the beast back together
The gearbox will be overhauled and the rings and valves done as well
I hope there are not too many more surprises

Cheers
 
I found the springs in the primary chain tensioner were broken
The top plunger had collapsed completely making the chain slack. I wonder if this is why it appears worn out
If I am to replace all this stuff i would probably be better off getting the belt drive? and if so I assume there would be no need for the oil bath and I wonder what other parts would suffer from not having the oil such as the sprag & starter motor parts
I have put a few more pictures on my blog and will contact you soon about posting pisc on the site

Cheers Jed
 
I don't think any of the belt drive kits are compatible with keeping the Mk3 electric starter.

If you want to keep the electric starter functional and reliable, you will need a new sprag clutch and check the adjustment of your anti-backfire device. If this is not adjusted to slip at the proper load, it can result in your sprag clutch being destroyed. You should also carefully check the inside surface of the primary sprocket and the outside surface of the bushing that goes inside the sprag. Many shops will not guarantee the sprag clutch unless both of these items are replaced at the same time. The starter motor should have the cables replaced with heavier ones that will carry sufficient current. Also most of the starter motors are pretty much toast by now. They can be rebuilt with 4 pole windings and brushes and converted to ball bearings or you can buy one of Dyno Dave Comeau's Japanese replacements. Now all this can add up to a pretty hefty sum, so if having a working green button isn't a priority, you might want to remove all the starter drive gear and starter and put a blank plate in the inner primary where the starter was. Then you can put the money you would have spent on the e-start on a new belt drive.

Don't get me wrong, the e-start can be made to work reliably, I have had one on my cafe racer for over 20 years.
 
Ron L said:
I don't think any of the belt drive kits are compatible with keeping the Mk3 electric starter.
Click to expand...

RGM Motors and Norvil both sell a belt drive kit for the Mk3.

http://rgmmotors.co.uk/
BELTMK3SM...BELT DRIVE KIT FOR FOR MK3 COMMANDO WITH SPECIAL TENSIONER AND SPECIAL DESIGN OF FRONT PULLEY WHICH ALLOWS THE RETENTION OF THE STARTER MOTOR £ 285.00
Click to expand...

http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/main.htm
069444 BELT DRIVE KIT - COMMANDO - MK3 ELECTRIC START ONLY - COMPLETE WITH BEARING - - - £303.23
Click to expand...
 
OK, so if I opt for the belt drive (given it looks like all the primary gear may need replacing anyway) does that mean the electric start is no longer an option?
While I like the idea of the primary drive I really want the bike to present as original as possible even though I would rarely use the ES anyway
Also I wonder if there are other components which may suffer from there not being any oil in there as designed.
I noticed oil from the primary was lubricating the starter parts but that would be a mute point if belt drive meant no ES

Cheers Jed
 
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