Where would you spend your money?
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Fast Eddie
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illf8ed said:
Better than many Japanese offerings... Not as good as the Brembo equipped Italian and German offerings... and not as good as the Lockheed equiped Triumphs.
That's me take at least.
The brakes seem to be viewed as a "go slower" or nice to have, reading many of the replies, They are a go faster mod, the more effective the braking you have, you can spend more time off the brakes and so earlier on the gas, making any journey altogether faster, how much would the TT lap record increase if McGuiness decides to opt for single pot callipers next year?
freefly103
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brxbp - that's a good way to look at the brake issue. 
o0norton0o
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.. As I said previously, If you've owned a '70 norton for 35 years, then you know the particular deficiencies of that model. The stock dual drum brakes for a '70 suck by comparison to modern disc brakes, but without a swingarm tube modification on a '70, your bike will be "snaking" down the road anyway... Ask me how I know....
If you have a later model norton, you may not realize how poorly the single bolted swingarm tube made a '70 handle. Over the many years of owning my bike, I had a friend who was a so called "norton expert". He always raved about the quality of norton handling compared to other bikes of it's era, and I never understood why because my bike had unbelievably sloppy handling. I renewed the swingarm bushes and the isolastics and still the friends who I rode with would say, "I can't see how you can ride that bike, From riding behind you, we see your back wheel is all over the place"
It took a long time to figure out why my '70 handled like $hit, because I wasn't aware of the change that Norton made to later models to improve the '70 style swingarm tube. While it is definately an improvement to have BETTER braking, IMO early style swingarm tubes without a Kegler modification handle so poorly they are dangerous....
I have a later model disc brake front end on my '70, so I have BOTH better braking AND better handling on my '70 commando. I don't think the better handling is any less critical than better braking. For all you saying "braking is the most important improvement", I ask you,... have you ever ridden a stock '70 bike with it's snake-like handling??
Don't overlook the kegler modification for your '70 commando. It's not expensive or particularly hard to do. It's a particular flaw that early bikes have that norton owners with later model bikes probably aren't familiar with..
If you have a later model norton, you may not realize how poorly the single bolted swingarm tube made a '70 handle. Over the many years of owning my bike, I had a friend who was a so called "norton expert". He always raved about the quality of norton handling compared to other bikes of it's era, and I never understood why because my bike had unbelievably sloppy handling. I renewed the swingarm bushes and the isolastics and still the friends who I rode with would say, "I can't see how you can ride that bike, From riding behind you, we see your back wheel is all over the place"
It took a long time to figure out why my '70 handled like $hit, because I wasn't aware of the change that Norton made to later models to improve the '70 style swingarm tube. While it is definately an improvement to have BETTER braking, IMO early style swingarm tubes without a Kegler modification handle so poorly they are dangerous....
I have a later model disc brake front end on my '70, so I have BOTH better braking AND better handling on my '70 commando. I don't think the better handling is any less critical than better braking. For all you saying "braking is the most important improvement", I ask you,... have you ever ridden a stock '70 bike with it's snake-like handling??
Don't overlook the kegler modification for your '70 commando. It's not expensive or particularly hard to do. It's a particular flaw that early bikes have that norton owners with later model bikes probably aren't familiar with..
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o0norton0o said:
Not just '70. I think the only modification to the original one bolt set up was only on the 850 mkIII. I didn't use the Kegler modification on my '72, but there was a mod out there before Kegler. Drill two 1/4" holes outboard of each side the one fixing bolt in the swing arm tube braze a 1/4" nut over each hole. Thread in a 1/4" bolt making a mark on the swingarm spindle then grind a flat at that point on the spindle for the new fixing bolt to touch. Assemble the unit using an extra nut to lock the new bolts. I did this on my '73 750 in '82 and again on my current '72 750 in '98. Both cases the fix worked first time and never had a problem with handling again. Make sure to top up the gear lube in there every year.
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I once looked at a standard Commando frame with a view to building a race bike, however could not come at it. I know that if the isolastics are properly set up, the bike can handle OK. However my approach would be to pick up the ends of the swing arm spindle, probably off the Z plates and thus force the engine/gearbox assembly to rotate about that axis when vibrating. That would give positive location between the hand grips and the rear wheel contact patch. It is amazing what will bend and flex when a bike is stressed, and how it affects the feel when you are riding hard.
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Let's get back to basics here....
The old, make it stop, make it handle then make it go is unhelpful if you only think in terms of modification....
First, make sure the brakes it has actually work as they should, which can include small and not so costly mods, but generally means make sure they are not worn out or badly adjusted. And don't forget that brakes can be affected by poor condition wheels and bearings as well as brake parts themselves.
'Make it handle' can mean a lot of work on a standard Commando that has been beaten, bent and abused, do it, getting it back to factory set up will help you tremendously as anyone who has ridden a badly fettled Commando knows, adding improved isos and a head steady along the way is good.
Get the best out of your carburation and ignition, which truly is best achieved by replacing worn out original or aftermarket stuff with sound parts, particularly suitably modernised parts like Premiers and a good inductive electronic ignition.
Now....look at the head refurb....not likely to do anything but improve the riding....and if you don't know the condition of the whole motor, strip and check is the only way to find out....
If you are going to replace worn out parts, then consider the availabe parts and the comparable cost of modern improved parts, and decide what you are prepared to spend. By now you will have been able to research more what works anyway, and if the whole project is taking you somewhere you want to be, before you find one day that you have spent more than you wanted to, and that you don't like what you now have......
It comes back mainly to 'one step at a time'....
Of course most of the guys on here didn't do this :shock:
The old, make it stop, make it handle then make it go is unhelpful if you only think in terms of modification....
First, make sure the brakes it has actually work as they should, which can include small and not so costly mods, but generally means make sure they are not worn out or badly adjusted. And don't forget that brakes can be affected by poor condition wheels and bearings as well as brake parts themselves.
'Make it handle' can mean a lot of work on a standard Commando that has been beaten, bent and abused, do it, getting it back to factory set up will help you tremendously as anyone who has ridden a badly fettled Commando knows, adding improved isos and a head steady along the way is good.
Get the best out of your carburation and ignition, which truly is best achieved by replacing worn out original or aftermarket stuff with sound parts, particularly suitably modernised parts like Premiers and a good inductive electronic ignition.
Now....look at the head refurb....not likely to do anything but improve the riding....and if you don't know the condition of the whole motor, strip and check is the only way to find out....
If you are going to replace worn out parts, then consider the availabe parts and the comparable cost of modern improved parts, and decide what you are prepared to spend. By now you will have been able to research more what works anyway, and if the whole project is taking you somewhere you want to be, before you find one day that you have spent more than you wanted to, and that you don't like what you now have......
It comes back mainly to 'one step at a time'....
Of course most of the guys on here didn't do this :shock:
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Working through a motor is usually only a minor issue for an owner of an old Brit bike. I'd be surprised if most Commandos were not already fast enough, however it depends on how you intend to use your bike - a highway cruiser or a café racer. If you are intent on getting involved in outriding others on public roads, it is usually silly stuff but enjoyable. It comes at a cost, however I don't believe most of the expense is in the motor. If you have a lot of tight twisty roads in your area, a commando can be a lot of fun, however it must handle and stop well. The bike is lighter than many moderns and you would probably be able to out-brake them and get into corners much hotter, however I would expect them to be faster between corners.
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If you don't have a lot of money to expend on your Norton, go for reliability, not performance.
The Maney crank very much changes the nature of the motorcycle. On/off throttle is more responsive, handling is improved because you're not carrying as much inertia into a turn, but don't even consider this investment for a street bike unless you are hot-rodding the whole motor.
My suggestion would be:
1. Brakes. Upgrade the master cylinder, drill the disc if you have discs, install the stiffener kit and really get the front brake set up well if you have a front drum. It really doesn't cost much money to achieve significant improvement of the front brake (and you don't care about the rear brake.)
2. Engine. A good rebuild with particular attention paid to the head. Kibblewhite valves and the associated hardware is highly recommended, perhaps a mild skim of the head plus one of Jim Schmidt's thin gaskets, depending upon your access to good fuel. Getting the head done by someone who knows what they are doing and is properly equipped is the best investment you can make, engine-wise.
3. Belt drive. A good belt drive primary is one of the best mods you can make to your Norton. Pulls off weight, inertia, solves leaks, reduces vibration.
Electronic ignition of course, that's pretty much the first step.
That's where I'd put my money if I were building a Norton such as you describe, but what do I know? (Well, what I know is that you can wad up $10,000 and throw it at your Norton and you're just starting on Stage One.)
Skip Schloss
The Maney crank very much changes the nature of the motorcycle. On/off throttle is more responsive, handling is improved because you're not carrying as much inertia into a turn, but don't even consider this investment for a street bike unless you are hot-rodding the whole motor.
My suggestion would be:
1. Brakes. Upgrade the master cylinder, drill the disc if you have discs, install the stiffener kit and really get the front brake set up well if you have a front drum. It really doesn't cost much money to achieve significant improvement of the front brake (and you don't care about the rear brake.)
2. Engine. A good rebuild with particular attention paid to the head. Kibblewhite valves and the associated hardware is highly recommended, perhaps a mild skim of the head plus one of Jim Schmidt's thin gaskets, depending upon your access to good fuel. Getting the head done by someone who knows what they are doing and is properly equipped is the best investment you can make, engine-wise.
3. Belt drive. A good belt drive primary is one of the best mods you can make to your Norton. Pulls off weight, inertia, solves leaks, reduces vibration.
Electronic ignition of course, that's pretty much the first step.
That's where I'd put my money if I were building a Norton such as you describe, but what do I know? (Well, what I know is that you can wad up $10,000 and throw it at your Norton and you're just starting on Stage One.)
Skip Schloss
Biggest bang for the buck is cam/head/valve train. Sure a single carb is limiting but you can go with a BIG single carb.
The other catch is if you increase performance, everything down stream needs to be up to the task. Gearbox, primary on and on, right down to wheel bearings and the like, all need to be able to handle the abuse that performance upgrades tend to promote.
If you want to keep it readable, don't go to crazy with the cam. These hemi motors respond profoundly to cam upgrades. A stage one cam goes a long way to give that kick in the pants feeling.
The other catch is if you increase performance, everything down stream needs to be up to the task. Gearbox, primary on and on, right down to wheel bearings and the like, all need to be able to handle the abuse that performance upgrades tend to promote.
If you want to keep it readable, don't go to crazy with the cam. These hemi motors respond profoundly to cam upgrades. A stage one cam goes a long way to give that kick in the pants feeling.
Stop choking the motor,put some nice Amal 932s on there, (125$ ea new) Boyer ignition and a nice exhaust. 106 main jets,needle in top position, k & n filters ,good rubber,avons, good disc brakes and pads, and rip it up.
They were designed with two carbs,the triumphs had one ( tiger) but used a different head than the boneville,which was designed for two carbs. You will gain more hp,take the choke slides right out,as your basically flooding the carbs when tickling the carbs anyway. A easy start ,low compression motor that will pull from 2500 rpm till redline in any gear,just don't go over 6000 rpm as not to float the valves. I've been riding Norton since 1974 when I bought my 850 and never sold it. Still showing the evolution sportsters what a Norton taillight looks like all the time. They are great,I don't know where you live but I'll help any way I can. I'm in southern RI.
The unapproachable Bone sr. Lindylutes@ gmail.com Good luck & happy holidays!!
They were designed with two carbs,the triumphs had one ( tiger) but used a different head than the boneville,which was designed for two carbs. You will gain more hp,take the choke slides right out,as your basically flooding the carbs when tickling the carbs anyway. A easy start ,low compression motor that will pull from 2500 rpm till redline in any gear,just don't go over 6000 rpm as not to float the valves. I've been riding Norton since 1974 when I bought my 850 and never sold it. Still showing the evolution sportsters what a Norton taillight looks like all the time. They are great,I don't know where you live but I'll help any way I can. I'm in southern RI.
The unapproachable Bone sr. Lindylutes@ gmail.com Good luck & happy holidays!!
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Perhaps a stock Commando fitted with two good discs on the front will out-perform one with a hot motor and poor brakes ? I know which one I can win on. If you can approach corners with confidence, it is a much better deal and in racing it is number one priority. If you haven't got the front brake, you are stuffed. On a road bike you usually approach corners with a lot in reserve because you usually don't practice each corner. In racing the norm is to practice each corner getting progressively faster until you go around it just at the limit of control. If your town has the local good bit of road and all the kiddies play there, you will probably end up doing the same as on a race track.
One other thing, often when you go into a corner too hot, you can climb off the bike a bit, stand it up and brake before you get off the bitumen. If your brakes are really good, you can ride much faster without the crash. An underpowered bike might be slower down the straights, however if the rest is good the result is better.
One other thing, often when you go into a corner too hot, you can climb off the bike a bit, stand it up and brake before you get off the bitumen. If your brakes are really good, you can ride much faster without the crash. An underpowered bike might be slower down the straights, however if the rest is good the result is better.
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