So, you want your money back?

Consumer Action Report forum posting about a new Norton

Sadly I am not a rich chap and with a 6 month old daughter I cannot afford to be 16K out of pocket with no bike to show for it.

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However in a weird coincidence I moved house in October last year and my new neighbour also had a Commando on order. Sadly his experience has been EXACTLY the same as mine, with phone calls not being answered or returned and when they are, very nice people making promises which are never kept.

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Somehow I'm not feeling too sorry for him. Anyone willing to risk £16,000 on a toy is not what I would categorize as "not rich". It's not like he had to take out a loan for the money.

On top of that he moved to a new neighborhood where the guy next door could also afford to toss £16k around. I bet it's a nice neighborhood… :mrgreen:

That being said, it appears production isn't meeting demand at the new Norton factory.

I haven't followed this situation, but until this post, I had no idea you had to pony up the full cost to order one. I thought it was only a deposit to hold one. Crikey, there is just no vehicle on the planet I would do this for.

So, this Stuart Garner guy is a millionaire? How did he get his money? Doesn't seem to be to slick at running a business. He needs to throw more of his own money at the biz instead of ripping off his customers.

Just my two cents.

caddy chris said:

So, this Stuart Garner guy is a millionaire? How did he get his money? Doesn't seem to be to slick at running a business. He needs to throw more of his own money at the biz instead of ripping off his customers.

Just my two cents.

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My work mate stumped up £1300 down payment 9 months age..No bike yet, he wanted a duel seat version..Norton keep telling him they are trying their best to get Type approval? as the rear end is not suitable for two up use,,,,9 months is a long time to sort out a couple of shocks :roll:

john robert bould said:

caddy chris said:

So, this Stuart Garner guy is a millionaire? How did he get his money? Doesn't seem to be to slick at running a business. He needs to throw more of his own money at the biz instead of ripping off his customers.

Just my two cents.

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My work mate stumped up £1300 down payment 9 months age..No bike yet, he wanted a duel seat version..Norton keep telling him they are trying their best to get Type approval? as the rear end is not suitable for two up use,,,,9 months is a long time to sort out a couple of shocks :roll:

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Bike was never designed for two up. Rear subframe may not be suitable. Notice there aren't even passenger footpads…

About a month ago I gave my 74 Norton that I had just restored to my son. I was the second owner so I have had this bike 35 years. He tells me guys come up and tell him what a cool bike it is and I said you get that alot. So I gave him a pic of the new Norton to show these guys as I do when thay come up to me. It was kind of like showing a pic of your new born son. I just dont know if I will do it anymore. Please Mr Garner, Dont let Norton fail another time.

Phil

Swooshdave,

To fit a pillion and the footrests to an existing motorcycle is not nuclear science. When Norton Motors Ltd was run by Richard Negus we did a two-seater F1 rotary for a customer. The F1 was most definitely never designed to be a two-seater. Richard with his second man built a tubular steel subframe instead of the standart aluminium one, put brackets for pillion rests on, made a new glass fibre rear end, had a seat made, and within weeks the proud owner had his two-seater F1.

Now remember this was a two-man setup with the daily business to run (Spares, Technical Advice for all Norton Rotary owners, other client's bikes). With reputedly 30 employees the same is impossible within months on a rather simple steel tube chassis? I ask you!

Type approval is mainly concerned with emissions, noise and brakes. It is not materially affected by a passenger. The only thing that changes slightly is unloaden weight. If the one-seater passes it, the two-seater will do the same. Been there, done that for all Norton Rotaries for the then factory.

Plus, remember bikes registered for road use in England- and I understand John Robert Bould lives in the UK, so will his work mate- do not even NEED type approval to be registered!

Joe

ZFD said:

Swooshdave,

Now remember this was a two-man setup with the daily business to run (Spares, Technical Advice for all Norton Rotary owners, other client's bikes). With reputedly 30 employees the same is impossible within months on a rather simple steel tube chassis? I ask you!

Joe

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Dunno, I'm not prioritizing the work at the factory. :mrgreen:

I wish they would get their act together. I'm probably in the minority, but I actually like the new 961. I'm going to be in the market for a modern ride soon and would like at least to consider a 961 (if they ever make on to US soil). However, I think the price is going to be prohibitive. Now if it were in the $12,000.00 price range, I could probably justify it. I just don't think I can justify almost $20,000.00 for what you get.

You would think with the cash in hand Norton would make it a priority to get bikes to people who have paid, in the order that they put their money down. Once they have a bike that they can build, I would think that they would be bolting them together. I see that they are talking about racing at the TT and in MotoGP next year. Something is not adding up.

Greg

Shouldve built my own 30 yrs ago , or 90 as ' engine ' was available . Ended up in waste bin . Several of them ! ?
d.o.h.c. Cosworth sierras with an electrical problem , a rod through the wireing loom . About 7 write offs, as 4 cyls.
No Problem Mate . I only want half .
FUDGE.

This thing looks like a dang Heskith . I cant see theyve any understanding or experiance of Commandos ??


Retrograde , to me , is no isolastics , unit engine , balance shaft , chassis ( Heskith ??) , Ex System .
glittzy go ga etc .

What do the things go like on a track . PRs were raced in the island in 78 & 81 , as was the CCM which was
in the top ten in world MX champs. So much for obsolete pommy singles and twins .

Looks like a good 850 with Cortina Pistons in a Rickman Chassis would have it for breakfast , bar brakes ??

At last, I see the light is beginning to dawn regarding Norton Motorcycles. When a well-respected UK journalist writes an article critical of them, and then a large publisher prints it in the premier UK classic bike magazine, then you begin to suspect all is not well.
I have ridden a production 961 and was impressed, but wouldn't buy one because a) it's far too expensive IMO b) niggling design faults and c) I am very doubtful of the Company's business ethics.

Sadly I would imagine the new Norton concern will have folded by the end of this year! The fact that they cant seem to deliver new bikes, and refuse to return deposits paid many months ago, appears to support this pretty strongly.

Shades of the original Bentlys ? needs a hard man at the Helm .

WHO is the Accountant . In Charge of ' those things ' . The Buck Stops There . :x
If they got a decent Manager in with engineering and delegational skills , they could
get things happening. Or a decent secretary ! :shock:

Sounds like they need to organize their priorities , got the draftsman when I rang from Aus .
to see which way the breeze blows . They need to sort out what they have before they get to many hi faluting ambitions .
A decent production design anylist ( no good designing something you cant make ) and volume assembly capeability .

Always a pity they didnt throw the Rotary in a Triumph Twin Chassis and sell it mid 70s rather than thinking of every reason they COULDNT do things. ( then selling the the 2nd most unaffordable motorcyle made !)
BSA were once the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturor . :shock: Now , If they got there act together ( Norton )
consolidate what theyve established. and bribe the producers with large orders of parts so their AVAILABLE
( subject to the first meeting specifications ) theyd be paveing the road in front of themselves .

sounds as if there may be a hitch in something related to that. If theyre to proceed theyed need to stop bickering
( oops sounds like an accountant ) and see that issues are put in order to proceed as necesary, rather than quibling
IF there arnt major product flaws.

Whats the highest milage established on a machine so far ??

Typical British industry to invest millions ( or 50 billion in the case of the TSR2 ) and have the polititions pull the rug
from under there feet at the early production stage.

Stated reason Triump d.o.h.c. 350 wasnt produced was the starter didnt fit . The starter was an option .

DUR in newspeak .

accountant had better figure what can be done , and see its done . Rather than excuses .


Quote " we hear you hung an Admiral the other day "

" Yes "

" But we hear it was the wrong Admiral "

" Oh Yes , Thats Right ."


"But why was that "

"we find it keeps the rest of them on their toes ".

All this first name baloney is bound to lead to tears . Now , when I say JUMP , you JUMP . :idea:
And no more of this partying . THATS for when sucess is accomplished . Sounds like theres a way to go yet .

I see the NOC forum has been cleaned of one of my recent comments on the non-availability of paddock stands for the 961 for several months. I suggested some suppliers are spoilsports in that they insist on payment, and that the paddock stand supplier might be one of them.
To "bribe the producers with large orders of parts so they are AVAILABLE" as Matt Spencer says one needs substantial funding. Many new manufacturers go that route, tell their suppliers pie-in-the-sky-stories about their great future and equally great demand for components. Many suppliers then deliver the first lot, but by the time they realize these components are not being paid for they stop supplying. Production comes first to a trickle, then a standstill as components from the stores dry up and no new supplies are forthcoming.
Some people new in the motorcycle production game have the idea insufficient funds can be created by a) taking deposits and b) looking for investors. Deposits don't go very far, because the money raised will be needed to build the bikes- no way will a motorcycle manufacturer make enough money on a new product to fund development, production tooling, rent, components, and overheads from deposits. Also, in this industry there are virtually no investors, and certainly not investors who have 3-figure million sums to invest. Nothing less will do, look at Triumph/John Bloor. And even that investment might not get you anywhere, look at Hardley/MV Agusta. MV was sold back to Castiglioni for the proverbial Euro, with another 80 million golden handshake thrown in by Harley just to get rid of a problem!

Q. How do you make a small fortune out of motorcycle manufacturing ?

A. Invest a large fortune in it....

Getting a little off topic here, but perhaps it should also be mentioned that at the height of the GFC a couple of years ago, Harley D got a (secret) $2b bailout from the US Gov't. And reportedly raised a further $1b privately, to get them over a 'liquidity crisis /credit crunch'. Reportedly all paid back by now.

Not a good time to be going motorcycle manufacturing ?

How does any bike company pay back $3b in a couple of years? Would HD make that much profit in a couple of years?

I'm not sure those are correct figures 3B & HD, but liquidity is much different from profitability. Once the credit markets ease up the company can borrow at a lower or perhaps even rate but longer term and repay the piper to get them off the backs of the investors. Maybe that lends truth, maybe not.