Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames ?

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

The reason TIG or MIG is no good for joining 531 is due to problems with cracking in the HAZ. This being the main reason the new generation air hardening "Reynolds" tubes were developed, as they can be used to make cycle frames using electric welding processes, without any problems related to cracking.

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Ducati's Verlicchi TT2 frame was made of thin wall chro mo tube and was defiantly mig or tig welded. This frame was made and used before the Harris frame that was brased 531 tube. Both frames were extremely strong, with the Ducati frame weighing 7 kg. They are not prone to cracking around the welds, or anywhere else.

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

You'd think the heat affected zone would be bigger with bronze welding - but maybe electric is more intense ? Yes Bernhard is spot on with electric (stick) welding such thinwall tubing though.

531 was a (prewar) manganese moly tubing, and this would have been well before mig was available. Wonder if anyone has tried migging it and seeing how it would go ?

BTW, that Reynolds history quotes how many tens of thousands of MILES of tubing was manufactured for aircraft use during WW2, when tubing developments really took off. So to speak...

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Rohan said:

You'd think the heat affected zone would be bigger with bronze welding - but maybe electric is more intense ? Yes Bernhard is spot on with electric (stick) welding such thinwall tubing though.

531 was a (prewar) manganese moly tubing, and this would have been well before mig was available. Wonder if anyone has tried migging it and seeing how it would go ?

BTW, that Reynolds history quotes how many tens of thousands of MILES of tubing was manufactured for aircraft use during WW2, when tubing developments really took off. So to speak...

Click to expand...

Temp for starters,nice gentle flame heating tube up to temp to get bronze to take, nice even spead off heat ,gradual cool down, mig two cold tubes instantly heated, short fast weld,cold tube are basicly quenching the weld and heated part of tube causing it to crack.Pre heating and post heating is recomened on modern tubes when using mig, tig isn't imune to the problem either.
I read an interview with Rob North which said he didn't like the 531 because it would crack with a razor like line and could be very hard to detect,but I feel it must be remembered that this grade is nearly 70 years old and has been well and truely superseded, alot of the newer steels are more welder friendly

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Modern day Reynolds 631 tube is air hardening, and can be joined by the TIG and MIG welding processes. Seems ideal for competition motorcycle frame building, and here in the UK some small scale producers of road race and off road frames are already using it.

However use of high tensile tubes for road going machinery is not that great an idea, as they are not as durable as MS, and cracking and other damage can be difficult to detect on frames which are painted or powder coated. Main advantages of high tensile tubes for MC use is that they have good levels of elongation, and yield figures are higher than MS.

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

531 is now almost 80 years old - it was developed in the 1930s.
There are now 4 or 5 grades of Reynolds tubing that have superceded it ?
As well as about 20 versions of 531 itself, listed in that Reynolds History.

Not to mention all the competitors tubing versions...

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

531 is still being made in Taiwan, but doesnt really have much interest for modern day motorcycle frame production. On the other hand 631 seems far more suitable, and Reynolds are very interested in selling it to a volume manufacturer, which would obviously help get it off the ground in respect of small volume producers, who are still using less than ideal T45 and 4130 tube.

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

I have been following this post with interest, having been a fitter welder for 40 years, it's not about the tube grade,or the weld type...it's all about the guy with the welder, having the pleasure to know the "greatest" welder in the world...yes he was...His name is Peter Mullroy. Who you all say? Well this guy worked on factory race bike's ,MV, being just one, Peter now in his eighties could weld perfect with is eyes closed...No fancy Mig,Tig or bob tail....just Gas!
I ran a prefab business, using Mig sets...some lads where good, some very good....so all this hype about welding , It#s like plastering...you can either do it well...or you carnt.
I would guess not all the frame welders where good...infact cutting corners to get the biggest bonus's .

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

No offence, but i don't think I'd want a frame welded up by someone with their eyes shut !

A very large part of a good weld is watching that the weld pool stays small and consistent and only goes where required.
Although it would seem that these robot welding machines have some way of controlling that...

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Rohan said:

No offence, but i don't think I'd want a frame welded up by someone with their eyes shut !

A very large part of a good weld is watching that the weld pool stays small and consistent and only goes where required.
Although it would seem that these robot welding machines have some way of controlling that...

Click to expand...

Something tells me you dont reside in the UK....................lol

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Rohan said:

No offence, but i don't think I'd want a frame welded up by someone with their eyes shut !

A very large part of a good weld is watching that the weld pool stays small and consistent and only goes where required.
Although it would seem that these robot welding machines have some way of controlling that...

Click to expand...

Well Rohan that's debateable, I would prefer a proper welder "with his eyes shut" to a crappy welder with his open :!: Joking apart; before the auto visors became available, production mig welders all ways "tacked" up with their eyes shut! I have had many sun tans in the past...and only ONE arc-eye....now thats nasty!..If you have done plenty of welding youself you will know what arc-eye is? ....Bewolf will know

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

I know "welders flash" is that the same ?
Where you run from the pub in the full monty....

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Woke up Christmass day , blind . Untill midday , after learning to Arc Weld makeing a triton / domiracer frame
from a pranged Commando frame , the days before .
SO , you can Arc Weld Commando tubeing . Though the welder didnt want to go low enough amps .
And , scarey , it handled very well indeed .Still got a drawing I traced from it ,so can replicate .

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Arc eye is not fun, stare into the sun for a while, that will give a glimpse of it. Luckily after you do it once you learn quickly. Auto darkening helmets are the best welding innovation to date. Not using the proper protection is just darwinism in waiting.

Re: Where was the Reynolds factory that made Commando frames

Just for the record.

"In October 1966 Manganese Bronze formed a new company named Norton Matchless Ltd.
Bill Smith a likable Scot who had been in charge of the sales side at Woolich was to be the Sales Director blah balh John Neville was then appointed MD of Nortons reporting to Dennis Poore, the Chairman of Manganese Bronze.

In December yet another company was formed. This was named Norton Villiers and encompassed the Villiers Wolverhampton factory as well as the production of Norton AJS Matchless James and Francis Barnett.

In July 1967, Hugh Palin .... Norton Villiers as Chief Executive.
The following month, a full page advert in MotorCycle expalined the new setup....
a row of 4 circles with Norton Villiers Norton, Norton Villiers Matchless, Norton Villiers AJS and Norton Villiers Royal Enfield ...
The idea, which was short lived, was that all models produced would have a similar tank badge with Norton Villiers at the top and the marque in larger letters.

Behind the scenes a brand new machine, the Commando, was taking shape."

So Norton Matchless did come before Norton Villiers...

HopethisHelps.