Wheel lacing - help

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Jwvert

Jwvert

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I've googled, searched but can't find enough detail. New 19" disc rim, new SS 19" disc rim spokes. I get that the tight 90 is the outer and loose bend is the inner BUT I've got spokes, 4 x 10 pcs. 2 sets have a loose bend, one with fine thread, 1 with coarse thread. The others have fine and coarse as well. So you have 4 spoke sets, each one with a lightly different bend and then a different thread. I'm asking which ones go where ie disc in, disc out, non disc in, out. Central Wheel Works spokes out of the UK.
 
Jwvert said:
I get that the tight 90 is the outer and loose bend is the inner
Click to expand...

I would keep an open mind at this stage.

Jwvert said:
BUT I've got spokes, 4 x 10 pcs.
Click to expand...

Did the 4 bundles have part numbers attached, or were there any part numbers on the documentation you received with the spokes?


Jwvert said:
2 sets have a loose bend, one with fine thread, 1 with coarse thread. The others have fine and coarse as well. So you have 4 spoke sets, each one with a lightly different bend and then a different thread.
Click to expand...

Are the "fine thread" and "coarse thread" spokes different gauges?

If so, then the two sets of heavier gauge spokes should go on the disc side.

According to my information the disc-side spokes may also be approximately 1/4" shorter (7 7/8") than on the non-disc side (8 1/8") .
 
Front wheel
Rim size: WM2-19
Spokes - Disc brake wheel:
Inner L.H. - 90° head 9 SWG .270 (6.9 mm) head
Outer L.H. - 90° head 9 SWG .270 (6.9 mm) head (80°bend)
Right hand - 90° head 8 SWG .290 (7.35 mm) head

Rear wheel
Rim size: WM2 - 19
Spokes - Drum brake wheel:
Rear outer: 6.093 in. Iong: 8/10 SWG: 90° head: offset length .531 in. (13.45 mm)
Rear inner: 6.093 in. Iong: 8/10 SWG: 90° head: offset length .375 in. (9.5 mm)

Rim size: WM2 - 19
Spokes - Disc brake wheel:
Outer L.H. – 6.155 in. long (153.8 mm) 9 SWG acute angle head
Inner L.H. - 6.140 in. long (155.9 mm) 9 SWG obtuse angle head
Right hand – 8.075 in. long (205.1mm) 9 SWG (fitted in hub cone)

http://rocbo.net/technique/norton_workshop/011.html
http://britmoto.com/manuals/Manuals/850_man.pdf
wheel-lacing-t20627-30.html
http://www.nocnsw.org.au/technical/spok ... l-building
https://www.oldbritts.com/lacing_info.html
 
Thanks for the reply. The course thread are heavier gage, so then if they are disc side, the loose bend is the inner and the tight the out ? No part numbers or documentation at all, sealed bag, they took the steps to ensure each spoke set is in its own sealed bag, just missing that last ID step I guess.
ANy help on orienting the rim and hub to get started would be appreciated as well.
 
Jwvert said:
ANy help on orienting the rim and hub to get started would be appreciated as well.
Click to expand...

The witness marks from the original spokes should sort out the hub (unless it's a new one...), and the rim is pierced in such a way that the 4 spoke nipple entry angles are all different and you pretty much can't assemble it incorrectly.

I work out which spokes are adjacent to the valve hole and start from there, with the inner spokes being laced in first.
Good fun once you get going
 
gortnipper said:
Front wheel
Rim size: WM2-19
Spokes - Disc brake wheel:
Inner L.H. - 90° head 9 SWG .270 (6.9 mm) head
Outer L.H. - 90° head 9 SWG .270 (6.9 mm) head (80°bend)
Right hand - 90° head 8 SWG .290 (7.35 mm) head
Click to expand...

It appears that 10+10+20 spoke arrangement was later changed to 4 sets of 10.

Jwvert said:
The course thread are heavier gage, so then if they are disc side, the loose bend is the inner and the tight the out ?
Click to expand...

According to my info. the disc-side outer (063925) is 'long' (bend) 90°, the inner (063924) is 'short' 80°
Non-disc side outer (063923) is 'long' 100°, and the inner (063922) is 'short' 75°.


https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-de ... ed-8-gauge
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-de ... 0-06-2538-
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-de ... es-per-10-
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-de ... 0-06-2540-

Jwvert said:
ANy help on orienting the rim and hub to get started would be appreciated as well.
Click to expand...

Has B+Bogus answered your question? Or did you want to know which side of the rim faces the disc side, as there is a considerable amount of offset between the rim and hub.
 
As far as witness marks, amazing what 600, then 1000 wet followed by 3 steps on the buffing wheels will do. So I may as well have a new hub. Thanks to all, think I have the 4 spokes sorted out. Interesting is that my new rim seems to have the valve hole in a different spot to my original Dunlop which has thrown me off. I see the 2 up and 2 down pattern. Trying to see which way the dimple left or right if the valve goes in relation to disc up or down on the hub.
 
Jwvert said:
As far as witness marks, amazing what 600, then 1000 wet followed by 3 steps on the buffing wheels will do. So I may as well have a new hub. Thanks to all, think I have the 4 spokes sorted out. Interesting is that my new rim seems to have the valve hole in a different spot to my original Dunlop which has thrown me off. I see the 2 up and 2 down pattern. Trying to see which way the dimple left or right if the valve goes in relation to disc up or down on the hub.
Click to expand...

the disc side dimples should be noticeably more vertical than the non-disc side.

As for the hub, you will still have some witness marks around the spoke holes themselves - the inner radius of the spoke bend always cuts a bit of a groove that the flange can't :)

It really does start falling into place once you get going
 
I've laced many wheels and have never seen spokes in the same set with different thread pitches. I've used Buchanan spokes for years and they use the same thread pitch for inner, outer, left and right.
 
I'm calling CWC tomorrow to get a spoke pattern from them. On the flip side I'm told the rear is dead simple, cant wait
 
Jwvert said:
I'm calling CWC tomorrow to get a spoke pattern from them. On the flip side I'm told the rear is dead simple, cant wait
Click to expand...

You should be able to determine the spoke pattern by just looking at pictures of bikes where the wheel is in shot.
 
Thanks marinatlas, that did it. I can't get over how well it went once I had the start sequence. Still have the offset to battle with but assuming it passes members scrutiny tomorrow night, laced my first rim.
Thanks again to all. Nice
 
Good work :wink:

Just when I was starting to get concerned that you were really overthinking it :mrgreen:

Here's the answer to the next question...

Wheel Offset:
Front Disc with WM2x19 rim: 11.75mm on disc side, 22.5mm on plain side (different rims adjust accordingly)
Measured from the machined faces on the hub :wink:
 
Lol. Saved me the question. Enjoying this restore but a lot of proprietary knowledge needed. Ive been told it's a steep learning curve with less and less resources available. Will see if I can post a before and after pic.
Thanks again.
 
Lots of resources , more than ever before. Credit cards and full bank accounts make any idea possible too. Learning is a curve that never flattens out.
 
Yes, it's not magic. When I did mine (drum brakes, easy) the first one I did I got it mirror image. That was funny. Nice practice though, at least I figured it out before I got too far. Once you get the spokes in place it goes quick, except for the offset, that may take some time and playing. I did mine for the final offset on the bike. It also makes you understand why one usually can't replace just one spoke.
 
I like this factory idea of lying the wheel down on the factory floor and stepping around the rim to generalize the offset . In retrospect I would have done this with my stainless spoke wheel project. But all worked out well. :)
 
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