What is wrong with the NOC?

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To my knowledge the NOC has never in the past been involved in the manufacture of spares, and is highly unlikely to do so in the future.
This makes me wonder where the reluctance to sell/hand over these drawings to a party that can make better use of this material comes from.
The attitude of the NOC is certainly neither in the interest of NOC club members nor other Norton owners, and I wonder if a "behind the scenes" involvement of "the man with the beard" plays a role on all this.
 
Peter R said:
The attitude of the NOC is certainly neither in the interest of NOC club members nor other Norton owners, and I wonder if a "behind the scenes" involvement of "the man with the beard" plays a role on all this.
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Now there’s a thought...!
 
Fast Eddie said:
Swoosh, you’ve been on this forum for a long time, you should know better...

The only valid opinions are those that agree with Ken’s.

Freedom of speech is good, so long as it agrees with Ken.

Anyone who has a different opinion to Ken, or challenges his ideas, or even raises a question is wrong and stupid.
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Pathetic, Nigel. Completely wrong. Stop making shit up. It doesn't do you any honour. Stick with facts. If you can remember them.
 
Fullauto said:
Pathetic, Nigel. Completely wrong. Stop making shit up. It doesn't do you any honour. Stick with facts. If you can remember them.
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Perhaps it’s not how you intend it Ken, but your writing with regards to some topics has been very much along the lines of you being right and anyone who differs being wrong. Things like tyre choice, tyre size, rim diameter, rim width, single carb over twin carbs, Mikuni carb over Amal, chosen rev range of the engine, to name the topics that come to my mind.

You frequently tell people that they’re wrong, don’t know what they’re talking about, talk bullshit, etc.

There is more than one way to skin a cat Ken. There are very few ultimate rights or ultimate wrongs in the old bike world. It is much more about personal opinion and preference.

Forums, just like face to face conversations, are more fun, and more productive, when we can discuss, and where necessary agree to disagree, without name calling.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Perhaps it’s not how you intend it Ken, but your writing with regards to some topics has been very much along the lines of you being right and anyone who differs being wrong. Things like tyre choice, tyre size, rim diameter, rim width, single carb over twin carbs, Mikuni carb over Amal, chosen rev range of the engine, to name the topics that come to my mind.

You frequently tell people that they’re wrong, don’t know what they’re talking about, talk bullshit, etc.

There is more than one way to skin a cat Ken. There are very few ultimate rights or ultimate wrongs in the old bike world. It is much more about personal opinion and preference.

Forums, just like face to face conversations, are more fun, and more productive, when we can discuss, and where necessary agree to disagree, without name calling.
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Nigel, I will invite you to do the same as I have others. Namely, find something that I have written which is provable bullshit. Nobody else has responded positively. Like all the AN stuff that is too hard. It just get's ignored til all the hard stuff goes away somewhere.

I'm afraid that I deal in something that you find difficult to come up with. They are called "facts". You, and others, seem to get your "facts" from AN newsletters. Which is unfortunate. I read the posts and make connections. And don't go on about "different truths" and other such mumbo jumbo. You are the eternal speculator. If I had a dollar for every argument of yours that began with something like, "well, I've never tried it, but I would think......" then I would be very wealthy indeed.

Get to the heart of the matter, and go from there. You should try it sometime.
 
Ken, your posts make Les look like a saint. Owners got fed up with Les and his attitude, no doubt they are getting fed up with your's.
Can't believe I have wasted the time typing this for you to read.
I am still amazed that you are still allowed to post after calling me and one other assholes.
 
Fullauto said:
Nigel, I will invite you to do the same as I have others. Namely, find something that I have written which is provable bullshit. Nobody else has responded positively. Like all the AN stuff that is too hard. It just get's ignored til all the hard stuff goes away somewhere.

I'm afraid that I deal in something that you find difficult to come up with. They are called "facts". You, and others, seem to get your "facts" from AN newsletters. Which is unfortunate. I read the posts and make connections. And don't go on about "different truths" and other such mumbo jumbo. You are the eternal speculator. If I had a dollar for every argument of yours that began with something like, "well, I've never tried it, but I would think......" then I would be very wealthy indeed.

Get to the heart of the matter, and go from there. You should try it sometime.
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Well Ken, I did not accuse you of writing bullshit. I said that you frequently tell other people that they are talking bullshit, especially when they are expressing views that are different to your own.

Neither do I recall repetive use of the phrase “well, I’ve never tried it, but I would think....” certainly not enough to make you wealthy at a dollar a time Ken! Although, to be frank, I see nothing wrong in that phrase, it is simply making clear that someone is posting a thought / idea / opinion and that they make clear, up front, that it is not based on first hand experience.
 
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Joe,
In your earlier post you state:

ZFD said:
What is vital is to access the information on the (reputedly) 5000 drawings the NOC has been sitting on for 27 years. I am sure there is a lot of parts there that we could either re-manufacture, or check dimensions on for parts we have since, in desperation, made new drawings for.
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If this is indeed the intention of ANIL then surely a more amicable agreement could be reached with NOC?
They have stated that they have made a copy of each drawing - presumably using IT - and these could be used for the purpose you intend. An agreement could then be reached to store the original drawings (historical documents) at a suitable venue such as the national motorcycle museum?
The NOC are basically a group of like minded individuals with a shared interest who support members in keeping their Norton Motorcycles running, they are not a commercial enterprise and would probably appreciate discussions towards a compromise.
Just a thought..
John
 
Ken, you've done the Norton community a great service as Fullauto.
I have no allegiance or vested interest in either party in this dispute (AN or NOC)
Your prejudice, indeed vehemence, toward AN appears clear to me, if not to you.
All this can't be good for you - I suggest dropping it and that you go and get your life back.
I expect, but hope not, to get a spray from you on this well intentioned post - we're (mostly) all old enough to do without this shit!
Happy (genuinely) New Year!
Rob
 
I had my original RH10 head from my Mk2 overhauled by Jim. When I bolted it up one of the rocker and valve head alignments was off quite a bit. I asked about it and Jim said it was common only fixable by an expensive custom guide. This was just another reason to blow the budget on a Fullauto head which clearly didnt have that problem. Now my point is I find it hard to imagine that the original drawings include this flaw! So
how much does one lose in reverse engineering? A lot in time and effort because you have to hand check everything just as with the job of helicoiling the front hub. Executing the drawing is the other half of the problem.

Point two is the B-29 story. That airplane, at the time, was the most complex beast ever made. Whether the reds nailed the whole thing and caught any mistakes of the original or simply hand waved the really tough parts I dont know. But you can see how this issue will have to be
considered even with making rather basic Norton motorbike bits.

Finally you have to remember that anybody who engages in building a company or product, be it Ken or Joe, that it takes a person with a certain amount of self confidence and drive and yes, ego, to even try much less succeed. Your reputation and as they say in politics your "legacy" is involved.
This comes with the territory and it is what it is. No Ken, no Fullauto heads. No Joe no ANIL as we know it today.
Ken and Joe and the Cam War? Outcome yet to be determined.
...as with the Great Norton Drawings War.
 
ZFD said:
Just to make Andover Norton's position clearer:


What is vital is to access the information on the (reputedly) 5000 drawings the NOC has been sitting on for 27 years. I am sure there is a lot of parts there that we could either re-manufacture, or check dimensions on for parts we have since, in desperation, made new drawings for.
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No Design Rights would exist for any of these parts, as after 25 years from original manufacture, all rights would have expired under European law.
It would make far more sense for the NOC to make electronic copies of these products available to all suppliers and manufacturers, for the good of Norton enthusiasts worldwide.
Create a level playing field for everybody, to make choices about re-manufacture.
 
ZFD said:
Fast Eddie & Swooshdave,
Oh Dear! Sorry I opened a can of worms by giving an example for reverse engineering. This thread is not about who is right or wrong in engineering.
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too late for that & now on record

ZFD said: ↑

Two things brought up in this discussion:

a) Faults creeping in through copying from an existing part: our technical buyer and fully qualified engineer Ashley can detail the mistakes made on the Fullauto heads which were copied from an existing head. It starts with the alloy used and ends with dimensions that aren't quite to drawing. Though probably an exact copy of the sample head used for the 3D sizing up which was machined in the 1970s with typical British industry tolerances of the time. Which, eventually, add up to a result that isn't quite right.
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i doubt i am alone in having great interest in the details?

another separate thread is also an easy option if required
 
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sounds like another separate thread that gives an opportunity for responding, keeping this thread on topic
 
84ok said:
sounds like another separate thread that gives an opportunity for responding, keeping this thread on topic
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This thread is so far off the topic regarding the Commando it makes no sense yet those who like drama keep bumping it mostly by you 84ok and that is in all respect.
Sure, I will delete my post since it offends you.
 
no sweat, i'm done with this thread & am not offended by your post
 
84ok said:
no sweat, i'm done with this thread
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Tut tut.... Do not give up so easy, this thread will drone on and on as they do serving no purpose but it will still get plenty of replies stating the same thing over and over because it is a circle so round and round we go. :)

Just to keep a little Commando content.

What is wrong with the NOC?


What is wrong with the NOC?
 
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