What is the best transmission oil?

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JimC said:
Hey Coco, what grind Web do you have?
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I'll have to check the paperwork when I get home. I know I asked for a streetable, zippy cam but nothing too crazy.
 
I use WEB-CAM regrinds in all my builds. I have found their products and service to be excellent. I also use and recomend Mobil 1 synthetic. The only
WEB-CAM failure I have had was 25 years ago and the cam was made when WEB-CAM was still Weber Cams. It had quite a few miles on it and was chipping on the end of the lobe. I sent it to Web-Cam and they fixed it for free and I didn't even ask for warrenty.
One thing I always felt was a contributing factor in cam failure was the grind on the lifter pad. I re-grind a lot of lifters and have found a large percentage of them were not ground square. This puts all the load along one edge. I have removed new lifters from the package and checked them on my grinder and found some of them were not square. It takes a good machine or a very dilligent operator to make them square. Many places grind their lifters using a valve stem grinding attachment on a valve grinder. That does not necessarily provide a square grind as they aren't accurate enough for lifters.
I am not sure what WEB-CAM has against Mobil 1. If you look at the oil additives in Mobil 1 they show the necessary EP additives to be in abundance. I have a feeling their predjudice dates from when synthetic oils were just making an appearance and additive packages were not always so good. Thirty years ago before the use of hydrocracking in oil production the only oils sutable for use in an air cooled motor was straight weight oil with lots of Zinc. Modern oils are light years ahead of what they used to be. Jim Comstock
 
And to answer the original question. I use synthetic ATF in my transmission and change it once a year. I have plugged the open vent hole and have a vent hose from the top of the transmission. That helps keep the moisture out. Jim Comstock
 
Jim Comstock,

I have a new Web cam and new, not reground, lifters that I've not run yet. How can I be certain my lifters are square or the cam lobes are not askew?
 
I read that a few years ago and stopped using Mobil 1. Thought it was some very objective testing based upon a Norton. I don't care have well Mobil 1 works in your Yamkawsuz XYZ 1500. In fact, I don't need to hear you've been running Mobil 1 in your Norton with nary a problem. Tear that sucker down and check everything out before you tell me how good you Oilzall 1-100w works.
 
This thread seems to resurrect itself once or twice per year. Last summer the topic was actively thrashed out in this forum with REAL evidence that I thought would put to rest many of the anecdotes that arrise from our personal preferences, Or not. I'm not trying to shill for Redline, but it is a serious performance lubricants company that post answers to many of the questions that reappear on these threads. First, Redline Tech Services states unambigously that it manufactures NO gearbox lubricants, GL-5 or otherwise, that corrode copper-bearing alloys at temperatures under 150C. If any of us have gearboxes operating above 150C, we have problems much more serious than choice of lubricants. Secondly, the dogged-gear transmissions in our Nortons require the highest film strength possible consistent with the viscosity found in standard 90w oils. The product Redline manufactures for our transmissions is Shockproof Heavy. This product does not corrode copper-alloy bushings. Metal flakes in the oil result from a mechanical problem, not from the use of Shockproof Heavy.

Since ATF is the anti-Shockproof Heavy lubricant, I'm always surprised to find riders who use it in our gearboxes. Could someone explain how such a thin oil is suitable for use in an over-stressed dogged-gear Norton gearbox? Many of you have much more relevant experience and knowledge of automotive lubricants than I do, so I'd love to see the non-anecdotal arguments for using ATF.

As Brian has just pointed out, there is a large body of evidence (see the tech pages of the INOA site) that speaks to the lifetime of various motor oils in our hot (200C plus) engines. Only synthetic oils emerge from the data with their film strength intact after 1000 miles of operation, with Mobil 1 a distant second behind Redline.
 
Hmm, makes one wonder how Norton Commandos ran for many thousands of miles originally when there was no such thing as synthetic oil and they were generally ridden a lot harder by us young guys than they generally are now by us old guys... ;)
 
In the old days I used 90 wt hypoid gear oil from the local car parts place and it seemed to work ok. The only gearbox problem I had was the stock layshaft bearing coming apart, but I do not believe that was oil-related.

In recent years I've been using Redline MT90 synthetic gear oil in the gearbox, changed yearly. It smells a lot better than the hypoid oil. :wink:

Debby
 
And in this corner we have Mobil-1 and in this corner we have Redline, 15 rounds of boxing for your pleasure. Let the games begin. :roll: Oh and by the way I only use Amsoil, LOL LOL LOL.
 
Jim C.
A machinist square and some bluing compound can tell you if the lifter is cut square. The pad needs to be perpendicular to the flat side of the lifter.

I will be tearing my high milage motor down in the next month and I can show you what the last 35,000 miles with Mobil 1 has done. I know the pistons are rather loose but I would bet the rest looks great. The bike has spent many hours being thrashed on the dyno doing the research for the injection setup. Listening to it howl away at 6500 rpm with the electric brake holding it against wide open throttle for 10 minutes at a time makes you appreciate how tough these motors really are. Jim
 
Hmm, makes one wonder how Norton Commandos ran for many thousands of miles originally when there was no such thing as synthetic oil and they were generally ridden a lot harder by us young guys than they generally are now by us old guys...


Remember in the 70's when Norton, GM, Detroit and a few other manufacturers were having engine failures [or Nortons oil consumption problems] caused by lubrication failure. Most of these problems were caused by the spin additives used in mujlti-viscosity oils. The answer back then was to go to a straight weight oil. Now days with hydrocracking being the main oil processing method spin additives are not used in premium multi-vis oils and oil breakdown is no longer seen. Now the main concern is making an additive package that protects the moving parts without harming the enviroment. Jim Comstock
 
And in this corner we have Mobil-1 and in this corner we have Redline, 15 rounds of boxing for your pleasure. Let the games begin. Oh and by the way I only use Amsoil, LOL LOL LOL.



I like Redline and Amsoil also. I use Mobile 1 because I can get it anywhere.
 
The best oil is clean and fresh oil, I have a buddy that uses a cheap recycled oil in his work boat and thing is still going strong after years of hard service, But the thing never gets hot as it always has fresh cool seawater to keep it cool. I believe the biggest concern is heat and how it breaks an oil down, For some time now I have been thinking of an oil cooler as it does get hot here in the summer. I really wish I could come up with one that would fit in a place that would look good. I have been thinking of making one that would fit on the down tube behind the oil tank, Enough air? I'll just keep thinking I guess.
 
The main advantage synthetic has over petroleum is the resistance to heat-related viscosity loss. This is why synthetics can be run longer than petros. That being said, other than syn vs. petro, the quality of any oil is due to the quality of its additive package. Additives are the main reason auto motors that used to be shot at 100,000 miles now run 3 times or more that long. I always used to run Pennzoil 50 Racing, but now I'm going to try the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50. I have had good luck with Mobil 1 4T Racing 10W-40 in liquid-cooled Triumphs and Kawasakis so I'm not concerned about running the brand in the Norton.
 
This thread made me run out to the garage and put fresh Redline SPH in my gearbox! I mean, c'mon, 75W viscosity with 250W protection? Is this a difficult decision?

Can't wait til my new rings are fully broken in, and then I'm going back to Redline engine oil too. YMMV!
 
Coco said:
JimC said:
Does anyone else have experience with Web cams?
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CNW (as far as I know) uses Web Cams in all their rebuilds including mine. I was told not to use synthetic.
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Things that make you say, "hmmm"!

Matt R is an occasional poster these days. Matt, if'n yer out there, I for one would love to hear your views on lubricants. Very few folks with as much Norton-specific expertise and experience. (And we know Mr. Hemmings won't be posting!)

"Stuck with Mobil 1 with those Rotella blues again...."
 
I will be tearing my high mileage motor down in the next month and I can show you what the last 35,000 miles with Mobil 1 has done.
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I will be real interested. I'm thinking that Mobil 1 probably does work well in the Norton. I just didn't want to push my luck with the girl from Web cam if I developed another flat lobe. Thanks for the tip on the lifters. I was kinda' thinking that was a way to check them. Thought there might be some super sophisticated way with which I could drop another $100. Is there a way to check that the lobe surface is parallel to the lifter surface other than dye?
 
Jim, A very thin layer of dye is how I do it. I guess you could check the cam for taper with a micrometer before you install it but I have not seen problems with taper on the lobes yet. I have seen automotive cams that were supposed to have taper that were ground with no taper however.
The best thing you can do for a new cam is avoid turning the engine any more than needed for assembly and then start the bike with the least amount of cranking and then bring the rpm up to over 1500 for a few minutes. Don't let the motor set at slow idle even for a minute with a new cam because the surface speed between the cam and lifters is not high enough to create a hydrostatic wedge and prevent metal to metal contact. I totally destroyed a cam and rod bearings in 1993 without ever starting the engine learning about hydrostatic pressure. I can tell you how not to do it if your intrested. Jim Comstock
 
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