Wet sump valve alarm

I'm in the final stages of completing my 73 Commando. I decided to install an oil cut off valve to stop any possible wet sumping. The valve has a buzzer alarm to let you know that it's in the off position. I also wired it so that the bike cannot be started unless the valve is in the open position. I'm a retired telephone repairman, not an electrician so there may be easier electronic methods to accomplish what I have done. I made the same setup on my Atlas and it worked very well. I don't think there are any wiring faults with these circuits although I'm open to any suggestions that would improve on my design. I'm showing how I did this for any who may be interested. I think we have all heard and discussed the pros and cons of having a valve in the oil line. For me, I think this is well worth the effort, I know a lot of members disagree, but for those who want to do something like this, here it is.

What you'll need.

1. A good quality 3/8" ball valve, like this. Notice there are two 6-32 screws with nuts. Drill and tap a hole for one of them, use JB Weld to attach the other so that it is insulated from the ball valve. The ball valve handle will act as the switch when it comes in contact with the insulated screw. Adjust the height of the screw so that it makes good contact with the underside of the handle. It will be locked in place when you connect the wire terminal and tighten down the nut.


2. A zl44 relay. I got this one at the auto parts store. The terminal numbers are the numbers on the circuit diagram pictured below.


3. Any 12v buzzer that's loud enough to be heard clearly. I got this one at Radio Shack.



Here's the circuit diagram.


Some notes: 1. The y/bl wire from the master switch is cut, the end from the switch gets terminated on terminal 85 of the relay, then connect a wire from terminal 87A to the other end of the y/bl wire that heads out to the ignition ckt.
2. This is a positive ground setup.
3. I have not tested to see if the system will work if the key is is position #3
4. I'll post pictures when the system is finished and installed on the bike. Electrically, everything functions as I planned.

Flame away!

Art

That looks pretty good to me, Seems you have plenty of backup safety with both open ignition circuit and buzzer. I'm curious as to the type of valve that you're using, either ball or plug valve? Reason I ask is because it looks like a standard port ball which has a smaller bore in the ball than a full port ball valve with a larger body. See this link for what I'm saying if you aren't familiar with the term:

http://www.commercial-industrial-supply ... all-valve/

Since the valve is in the suction/supply line to the oil pump, a standard bore ball valve gives some restriction to flow and when the oil is cold and doesn't want to flow very well due to high viscosity, this could be an issue. Just sayin', no proof of that without testing.

I went even simpler than you did. I installed a full port ball valve and connected the end of the handle to the ignition key with a length of steel fishing leader and swivel connectors. You can't put the key into the ignition switch without opening the handle of the ball valve... it won't reach unless fully open. When I park the bike somewhere, I pull out the key, close the valve, and drop the key behind the crankcase. No one can see it so I don't worry so much about theft. If I forget to close the ball valve, no big deal. I read about this method on another forum way back....

Bill

Good point, it is a full port valve however, in checking the measurements I found that these brass barb hose fittings are NOT a full 3/8". Not good. I'll find the correct fittings and replace these. Your reply saved me a whole lot of grief. Thanks.

Art

The 1/2" pex valves will work fine.



I currently use a micro-switch that contacts the valve handle, but plan on going to a relay like you have and using a magnetic prox switch to energize it. I haven't wired in a buzzer, but would be easy to do.



Many ways to do it, even buy the IronJohns one with switch.

Notice that Jim C. posits that it's bad for the cam due to lack of oil at start up.

Dave
69S

Love the cleaver time and thot to over come a non issue and possible cam splash protective wet sump, but I put a valve in Peel too if set up long - its simpleton safety feature is handle gets in way of kicker and foot peg in off position. Install is rather more complex to simplify the wiring part though. Show us the installed photo when able.

hobot said:

Love the cleaver time and thot to over come a non issue and possible cam splash protective wet sump, but I put a valve in Peel too if set up long - its simpleton safety feature is handle gets in way of kicker and foot peg in off position. Install is rather more complex to simplify the wiring part though. Show us the installed photo when able.

Click to expand...

Here's the completed installation.
First, I had to drill out the ID of the brass adapters to 5/16" to match the ID of the oil pipe into the crankcase.


Then I fabricated a bracket to hold the valve steady.




Then make all the wire connections to the relay, buzzer and valve.



I have several bikes I ride so the Commando can be sitting idle for weeks at a time. I'm not sure if wetsupping is an issue or not with the Commandos but with this setup I know for sure that it absolutely will not be one. The wiring setup for this wet sump valve can also be adapted for a switch fabricated onto the frame at the point where the sidestand retracts. If the sidestand is down the motor will not start. I have an extra foot brake switch that I could use to do this but that's something for future make-work projects.

Art

I am going up a similar route on my featherbed special.

This valve will be inline on my oil tank.

I'll wire it into the magneto kill switch line so that when the valve is closed, the mag won't spark.

the beauty of wiring it this way round is that if for any reason the micro-switch should fail when I am out on the road, I can just unplug the switch, and the mag will produce a spark.



I spent a lot of time researching sprung valves and other one-way, anti-siphon gizmos, but didn't like the sheer amount of resistance or restriction they put into the oil line.

This was the best thing I could find!

I like the look of that valve. What kind is it and where did you get it? What's the ID of the ports?

Art

bentrod said:

I like the look of that valve. What kind is it and where did you get it? What's the ID of the ports?

Art

Click to expand...

Me too! I want one!

Slick

You don't want to know what it costs. pingel electro-flo valve

$350-wow, I think I'll stick with my setup. From the looks of the hose connections I might be concerned with the oil flow being restricted.

Art

Yes it is the Pingel valve

I am using AN-6 connectors, and there is no restriction in the bore.
They are supplied as standard with 5/6" hosetails.

$350 is recommended retail price so expect to pay half that trade.

I am intrigued by this pingel valve... gtiller says that you can get this half price if you have a trade discount? I'd pay $175 for it. I did contact pingel and they can cutomize these valves with either 3/8 ID barbed connections or the 6-AN ones. If you buy directly from Pingel they are $350 which is too rich for my blood? Anyone out there have a "trade"account with pingel?

Best thing is to buy from a dealer like APE, Dennis Kirk or Sudco.

Pingel will only sell direct at retail prices - I got my AN-6 hose ends from them direct as no one else seemed to stock them - they were pretty extortionate :roll:

gtiller said:

Best thing is to buy from a dealer like APE, Dennis Kirk or Sudco.

Pingel will only sell direct at retail prices - I got my AN-6 hose ends from them direct as no one else seemed to stock them - they were pretty extortionate :roll:

Click to expand...

So you bought your valve from a dealer and the end from Pingel.? What did you end up spending?

I installed a full port ball valve and connected the end of the handle to the ignition key with a length of steel fishing leader and swivel connectors. You can't put the key into the ignition switch without opening the handle of the ball valve... it won't reach unless fully open.

Click to expand...

I did the exact same thing about ten years ago and it worked just fine!

However, I was not talented enough in securing the connections so that it kept loosening up on me over time.

Then I went with the spring loaded one way valve in the oil line, worked as advertised perfectly.

About a year ago I got paranoid about maybe something going wrong with the one way valve and removed it.

This summer I put back in the oil line my old WOG (water, oil, gas) 3/8 lever valve and safety wired it ON.

I ride just about every day here in the southwest USA so it never sat long enough to really wet sump.

However it is getting colder here now, last week on a 50 degree day I took the Norton out for a short ride to get the oil out of the sump, removed the safety wire, and turned the valve to the off position upon returning to the garage, there will be NO wet sumping going on while I wait out the short winter here.

Does it really "matter" in a negative way if our Commando's wet sump?

The only thing I can think of is the very real possibility of blowing out the crank to primary seal when starting a cold motor with the sump full of oil, happened to me a couple of times through the years.

I like the electronic fail safe system you have wired in place, very nice job!

@Johnnymac Yes, the valve came from a Harley parts supplier with 5/16 hosetails, and I wanted screw connections.

Here in the UK I paid £120 which equates to around 190 bucks.

The ends are interchangeable with guzzler bits, which is why they are satin anodized in my pic, and not polished like the body of the valve.