VIN verification

I never claimed to have all the answers.

But I have been professionally involved with Norton motorcycles for over three decades, and I think I have a fair idea what is a myth and what is not. And in many cases the records to prove it and the people to ask who were there at the time. I have probably more Norton records than most, be it drawings, factory information, correspondence etc, and knew (in case of the deceased), and know, the key persons involved in Norton manufacture.

That said, I learn new things every day, but then other esteemed colleagues- like, say, Mick Hemmings, Nick Hopkins, Richard Negus etc- will admit to the very same thing.

As for the engine number establishing the identity of the bike I know this was the case in the 1960s right into the 1970s in England. The Trton of my friend Al Tritten, editor of "Roadholder" for many years, was a "Triumph" according to the then current green logbook, though the chassis was correctly listed. We talk pre-computer, pre-EC days here.

ZFD said:

As for the engine number establishing the identity of the bike I know this was the case in the 1960s right into the 1970s in England. The Trton of my friend Al Tritten, editor of "Roadholder" for many years, was a "Triumph" according to the then current green logbook, though the chassis was correctly listed. We talk pre-computer, pre-EC days here.

Click to expand...

Sorry but you can't know this to be the case because it simply isn't the case. I also remember pre-computer days and buff log books!

You are merely misinterpreting certain facts based on one machine that had apparently been 'built from parts'.

It's difficult to explain the California DMV to people that don't live in California. I believe it's an institutional culture that starts at the top. It's where people that went postal at the USPS find a job. Don't try to talk to them, it only makes them confused and crankier than they were already.

Whether you brought the bike to the DMV or not they would have sent you to the CHP for an inspection anyway, don't take it personally.

Where you go actually makes all the difference. I can recommend an office in a small Northern California town that is a one man shop, (woman as it happens). Her husband owns a nice bike shop up the street and the CHP office down the road is full of her best friends. If you're legit, you're in like Flynn. Find a small DMV office outta town if you live in a metropolitan area, it's worth the trip.

ZFD said:

The Trton of my friend Al Tritten, editor of "Roadholder" for many years, was a "Triumph" according to the then current green logbook, though the chassis was correctly listed. We talk pre-computer, pre-EC days here.

Click to expand...

I've just recently seen a Triton which was registered as a Triumph but used the frame no. of the Norton 88 donor(122something) as its VIN for a German registration (which is in the EU and yes they used computers). That no. was used by the German TÜV and they used the UK log book which clearly stated it's a Norton to verify the date of first registration. Good fun for those guys who'll try to find out what that strange old motorsickle is in 30 years time .... :mrgreen:


Tim

Sorry but you can't know this to be the case because it simply isn't the case. I also remember pre-computer days and buff log books!

I should have been very surprised had you not gone for the bait. Actually, this is how it was explained to me at the time, when I was but an ignorant young student living in England. Now I am but an ignorant old fart living across the Channel.

At least somebody knows everything!

ZFD said:

Sorry but you can't know this to be the case because it simply isn't the case. I also remember pre-computer days and buff log books!

I should have been very surprised had you not gone for the bait. Actually, this is how it was explained to me at the time, when I was but an ignorant young student living in England. Now I am but an ignorant old fart living across the Channel.

At least somebody knows everything!

Click to expand...

Your remarks leave me somewhat dismayed and disappointed-as I'd held you in high regard until this moment, which does go to show that we can all be wrong occasionally.

FWIW - I checked my MK III and found the stamped frame number does NOT match the Tag, Engine, or Transmission numbers. CAL DMV registered the bike based on those three matching numbers with no problem. I just did not go to them for the VIN verification. VIN verification can be completed by DMV, CHP or your local police/Sheriff departments. If you know a cop who knows bikes, have them do the verification, unless you have been directed by DMV to go to the CHP. Sometimes CHP is risky. My brother took his BSA A-10 to a local CHP office for the verification. When the officer came out and looked at the bike he said, "Where is the rest of it?" He was young and apparently if it didn't have a bunch of Tupperware on it, there must be something missing.
Good luck
Craig

The CHP is the Inspector of last resort in California. When there is any discrepancy found, other inspectors, AAA, LEO's, and the DMV are instructed to pass it off to the CHP. They probably sent you out the door with the form Reg343/Reg31. There is a box that says, DO NOT PROCESS REFER TO CHP. The CHP does a stolen vehicle search and a check for other vehicles that had ever used that VIN in California. I saw the sheet on my 73 850 and there were a lot of them listed, cars, bikes, whatever. I think they might run a check on you too, they took my license. Don't worry about it though, the CHP officer is going to have much more time to hear your explanation and they are usually more competent than the DMV clerk. Make an appointment if you can.

Here's what's stamped on the front of the one I just got.

Yes, that is how I know them. I since talked to a friend in the trade who used to import containerloads of Nortons into Germany from Texas. He stated he had seen 850s with what appeared to be original 3.. ... frame numbers (like the LAB bike). Unfortunately, the records I have do not give frame numbers for most 850s, and the three bikes Dynodave supplied the numbers for are in the records just with the engine number, a frame number is not listed (though all three have 850F 1.. ... numbers).
I revise my statement that all 850s should have 850F 1.. .... numbers to "Most 850s had 850F 1.. ... numbers".

Thanks for the feed back. Cj

This has sparked my curiousity. Where is the frame number stamped? I'm interested to see how mine falls in the DynoDave chart

Interesting how diffrent DMV's work. When I aquired mine (Ontario), the last number of the VIN differed between the Ownership paper and the bike (frame plate and engine are the same). As I had to have the bike appraised for insurance purposes, the nice Lady at the MTO called the Appraiser to verify and voila! changed, plates issued. No fuss, no muss. The Appraiser was registered by the MTO though.

Niagara850 said:

This has sparked my curiousity. Where is the frame number stamped? I'm interested to see how mine falls in the DynoDave chart

Click to expand...

It's usually stamped on the right hand side of the headstock, alongside the certification plate.

I realize this thread is about MkIII's but here's what I found

74 850 MkII Vin 316XXX (engine and VIN plate), Manufacture: 14...(Jan 74??), Frame # 110566, Wide Loop, small frame# lettering, Coil mount holes round. I'll look for the other number when the tank comes off during winter mntce. No claim that it left the factory that way, but I am curious of its origins. I've seen plenty of evidence of work, some crash damage etc. If only it could tell me its story, I'm sure it's interesting