How do I find the history on a 1976 Norton Commando Mk3 Interstate w/Vin 6 digits long?

I have recently purchased a 1976 Norton Commando Mk3 Interstate from a Craigslist ad. The person selling the bike says he purchased it from the registered owner and has sent me the title signed off by the original owner. He (the seller, not the registered owner) insists that all I need to do is fill in my name and the sales date and amount and take to the the California DMV get it registered. The title is dated 5-14-2002. The seller tells me it is in good working order as it was maintained by a mechanic employed by the registered owner. It doesn't appear to have ever been licensed in Tennessee, the state the title is from. I believe this is a legitmate purchase but I want to research the history of this bike. However as the Vin number is only 6 digits long, no site I have found can accept this vin number as valid. Does any one know a site that can help me trace the history of this bike. I know it was originally purchased in England and imported to the US in 1995, apparently to be added to a collection.

As long as the 6 digit number on the Tennessee paper agrees with either the engine number or the frame number, I don't think you'll have a problem registering it in CA.
In fact, being from TN is prob better. If it had been un-registered in this state since 2002 and had not been filed as "non-op", they wd ask you for 16 years worth of registration fees.
Which doesn't mean you'd necessarily have to pay them. I was in this same pickle but with a CA bike, and convinced the gal at DMV that it wouldn't be fair. She agreed and waived the old fees.

As for the history, Good Luck. If 'twere me, I'd talk to the previous owner. Are there 3 different people here? Seller, registered owner, and original owner?

Thanks Mr. Rick,
I've had no contact with the registered owner since he released his interest by signing off on the official TN registration. Everytime I ask the seller about whether it has been operational all he says is it's been maintatined by the registered owners "mechanic," who is who he bought it from, apparently with the registered owner permission. When I ask the seller if he has a bill of sale he says he didn't need it since the title has been released.
I understand what you're saying about getting it registered, it's just that I don't want any surprises. I think the bike has less than 4500 miles on it. I've got a binder with all the import paperwork and the sign off in MI when it was brought over in 1995. Thanks, Peter
Oh, the photo is my 2016 Norton Commando Mk3 Sport wjicj I bought 6 months ago but haven't been able to ride very much due to a number of factors (preparing to sell my condo in Long Beach, etc). It has had the factory competition mufflers installed and retuned. When that was done the riding the bike was like having a COMPLETELY NEW motorcycle. I just got it yesterday from Southern California. It's cool here during the day but I'm going to take it for a short ride tomorrow. I'll be gathering all of the recommended upgrades that other 961 members have been recommending to solve battery and other electrical issues. I'l do more posts as I get that going. Peter

Maybe others with more experience selling and buying and registering will chip in here, but it seems pretty tangled to me, the chain of succession being kinda murky.
First you said "The person selling the bike says he purchased it from the registered owner" Later you say the registered owner gave it to his mechanic, who sold it to the guy you bought it from? Do you have that document confirming the release of the title? How do you know (and how will DMV know) the sale to you is legitimate without a bill of sale? Maybe all this is irrelevant; I'm just offering my own concerns, if I were in your place. You might wanna at least give DMV a consistent story, ya.

You do know there's a 961 forum "right next door", yes?

As for "history of the bike": You can post the 6 digit number here and people can tell you stuff about the original configuration. I don't think you can reasonably expect much more than that. You got a whole binder, most of us got zip...

The US state DMV title transfer document requirements may differ but typically the clerks do not like to see an 'open' title where the vehicle was sold but not registered in the new owners name. A registered vehicle dealer can do this when they take a trade on a used vehicle as the vehicle will be re-sold.
If you have questions on the purchase of this Norton I suggest the two of you go to the DMV together and do the deal right there.
If there is a paperwork/title problem then they can suggest a way to clear it up, or the deal can be cancelled. And that would be a shame.

It is common practice by many sellers to simply sign the title without a date. Often the vehicle passes hands several times before
a buyer actually registers it in their name. Maybe this is fudging on the rules, but is the way of the world. In California, the DMV
requires nothing more than a signed title with the selling amount filled in (so they can collect the sales tax). If the bike had previously been
registered in California without the benefit of having been put in "non-operational" status, registration fees for each prior year would be
due though they are sometimes waived. If the bike is titled in another state it needs to be inspected for the VIN number and an out-of-state
transfer fee plus the tax on the sale is due in addition to the registration fee. Hint: Don't piss off the cranky old lady at DMV or she
will make life miserable for you and insist that you go to a highway patrol office on a Saturday morning and wait 3 hours for an officer
to verify that the bike met California emissions standards on the date of manufacture (even though Calif. didn't have emissions standards for motorcycles until 1979 as is stated in their website) and verify that it isn't stolen. List a reasonable amount as a sales price. Not $250!

Mr. Rick said:

Maybe others with more experience selling and buying and registering will chip in here, but it seems pretty tangled to me, the chain of succession being kinda murky.
First you said "The person selling the bike says he purchased it from the registered owner" Later you say the registered owner gave it to his mechanic, who sold it to the guy you bought it from? Do you have that document confirming the release of the title? How do you know (and how will DMV know) the sale to you is legitimate without a bill of sale? Maybe all this is irrelevant; I'm just offering my own concerns, if I were in your place. You might wanna at least give DMV a consistent story, ya.

You do know there's a 961 forum "right next door", yes?

Click to expand...

I know about the 961 forum and have already purchased some of the recommended upgrades to the electrical system. This bike ALWAYS needs to be on a tender or else the battery goes south. As I have been moving around over the time since I purchased it the battery has been replaced 3 times!

Bob Z. said:

The US state DMV title transfer document requirements may differ but typically the clerks do not like to see an 'open' title where the vehicle was sold but not registered in the new owners name. A registered vehicle dealer can do this when they take a trade on a used vehicle as the vehicle will be re-sold.
If you have questions on the purchase of this Norton I suggest the two of you go to the DMV together and do the deal right there.
If there is a paperwork/title problem then they can suggest a way to clear it up, or the deal can be cancelled. And that would be a shame.

Click to expand...

Bob,
The seller is in Tennessee so can't do what you suggested. The person I bought this 76 Norton from says he used to live in Oceanside and worked at a motorcycle dealer. He says that all I need to do is fill in my name, date of sale and the sale price and get the Vin number and mileage validated and pay the tax and fees and it's done? Guess I'll find out! Peter

lazyeye6 said:

It is common practice by many sellers to simply sign the title without a date. Often the vehicle passes hands several times before
a buyer actually registers it in their name. Maybe this is fudging on the rules, but is the way of the world. In California, the DMV
requires nothing more than a signed title with the selling amount filled in (so they can collect the sales tax). If the bike had previously been
registered in California without the benefit of having been put in "non-operational" status, registration fees for each prior year would be
due though they are sometimes waived. If the bike is titled in another state it needs to be inspected for the VIN number and an out-of-state
transfer fee plus the tax on the sale is due in addition to the registration fee. Hint: Don't piss off the cranky old lady at DMV or she
will make life miserable for you and insist that you go to a highway patrol office on a Saturday morning and wait 3 hours for an officer
to verify that the bike met California emissions standards on the date of manufacture (even though Calif. didn't have emissions standards for motorcycles until 1979 as is stated in their website) and verify that it isn't stolen. List a reasonable amount as a sales price. Not $250!

Click to expand...

Thanks lazyeye6,
That is essentially what the seller is saying. I'll let everyone know how this progresses. I'm a little skeptical about why this seller can't provide a bill of sale. I suspect it is because this bike hasn't been licensed for operation since 2002, though he claims it is in good working order. I'll keep you all updated. Peter

Oh! By all means you should receive a bill of sale! No reason anyone can't write one up for anything, anywhere, anytime.
If the seller won't do that then I'd be suspicious. I'm just saying that Calif. DMV doesn't require one. Does an old registration
slip from the owner on the title even exist? Would be helpful if it did. Really, all California wants is your money.

Perhaps not applicable in this specific Norton sale case, but for transferring ownership of things like vehicles, a signed and dated title and/or bill of sale also establishes the transfer of legal liability.
A sale with an undated title could possibly cause trouble if the vehicle was involved in an injury incident. The legal owner still named on the existing title could be held responsible for damages caused by the new, but yet unregistered, owner.

The seller has NO REASON not to provide you with a basic Bill of Sale, and likely is REQUIRED BY LAW to do so. Two reasons to do is, is to validate the sale to a specific individual, and to shed liability attached to the vehicle after the date of sale. It is part of a valid chain of title.

Here in Oregon it is pretty easy. If out of state all you have to do is have signed title, take it and bike to DMV, they look at bike's VIN # vs VIN # on the title and you are done. All they want is the revenue, don't care about anything else. But in Washington state you have to have a Bill of Sale with selling amount on it signed by seller. They base their tax on value and if you under value it by very much, they produce a book that they use to establish value of vehicle and that is that unless bike is in need of full restoration, a junker, etc. If you try and fight it you have to have seller sign a legal form swearing to amount sold. Like I said, here in Oregon it is pretty easy.

You have the title with the name and address of the last registered owner. You can call or write him/her and get some background, he/she will also tell you (rather quickly) if the Norton was purloined from them.

When I purchase motorcycles from people I haven't met (over 300 miles---yes, I'm getting old) I ask for a notarized bill-of-sale and a copy of their drivers license, or passport. I also call my friendly local PD, before sending any money, and ask them to run the VIN through the national stolen vehicle database. With all the documents I can show what I paid and to whom; in the remote event that the motorcycle ends up actually being stolen I loose the machine and, probably, my money; I won't end up paying a lawyer to keep me out of jail. I do have the name and address of the person I purchased it from (also verified independently) so I can always pay the errant seller a visit, one they won't forget...

Given the what you have I'd say fill in the missing information and apply for a title. As was mentioned earlier, it is not uncommon for collectors or dealers to have the prior owner just sign the title, it gets filed, and when the vehicle gets resold they pull the signed title and supply it to the new purchaser, saves them the title fee.

FYI...I just got a Carfax report on '73 HiRider. The online tool didn’t like the serial number, so I reached out to their support folks...they explained only limited info for pre '81 vehicles, and they did manual search for free...it found two title registrations in two provinces...Normal status, not rebuilt, salvage etc. All I needed to know.

Yes, Texas also requires photo I.D. of seller!

Thanks for all your input. Here is where it stands. (1) I paid the money! I received the title with it's release signed off by the registered owner (not the seller) and I have a lot of documented history of the bike up to about 2004 and I have a key! The bike was picked up by the carrier last Friday(12/22/17) and I have photos of the bike being loaded into the truck...so it's on it's way here! Yes, I agree that the seller should have executed a bill-of-sale but every time I pushed for it he pushed back that it was not necessary in California (citing his 20 years of experience bbuying and selling bikes in Oceanside some years ago). I will wait until I receive the bike where-upon I will pay the fee to the INOC and see what factory records I can get. I will also get the mileage, engine number and frame number verified and authenticated. If I get not red flags I will fill out the title with my name, date of sale, sale amount and go to the DMV and see what I get.
Many of you are probably thinking that I ran through some red lights getting to where I am now and YOU ARE RIGHT! I've looked at Nortons for sale for over 3 years and until I saw this one I didn't think the iones I saw were for me. This one called out to me, especially at $8500 for a 1976 Interstate with less than 4500 miles!
I also have found a fellow that lives not too far from me that has 30 years experience rebuilding Nortons (he currently owns 4, 3 750's including 1 Combat and a 74 850) and he has agreed that he will help me assess the condition of this bike. I know it has a Boyer ignition ans that it has had some minor repairs over the years (discs, carb rebuilds, etc). I'll keep you all informed. The projected delivery date are between Jan 10th and the 19th...or sooner. Peter

I sincerely hope you don't encounter any issues with no Bill of Sale. (although I believe you will)

How did you pay the seller? Do you have any documentation of the sale that has his name on it? That MIGHT do...

not trying to rain on your parade but CA sucks for importing bikes, especially those with less than 7500 miles.
please read the following link which states any car or cycle with less than 7500 miles is considered "NEW", thus their idea what is necessary for smog increases.
not trying to shock, just want to inform you of all the variables.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?...ntent_en/dmv/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29

per website;

What Is Considered a New Vehicle?
California considers any vehicle with less than 7,500 miles on the odometer at the time of purchase or trade by a California resident or business, to be a new vehicle. This is true whether or not the vehicle has been registered in another state