Upshifting

With the Commando is it OK to shift up through the Gearbox, without using the clutch, with just the usual off the throttle for a second. Feels fine when I do it, but was wondering if anyone with many miles on these gearboxes, or with racing experience would advise?

Peter

ABsolutely yes and is a normal expected skill of manual transmissions users of many types. I do it all the time on Cdo's and moderns and is actually easier on the guts once getting sense and skill to match rpm and throttle up or down so slips in next gear up or down thoughtlessly seamlessly smooth with minimal pressure on shift lever. I've never had gears grinding miss mess doing this but if getting "wrong" it does jerk rear tire and pilot some in the 1st/2nd up/dn zone, which on THE Gravel can take me down, so pretty mild speed/rpm/throttle zone to please myself on sweetness rather that sloppy operator. Easiest to do is dragster like take offs with some throttle cuts on toe motions. I mostly do clutchless shifts going down very loose Gravel steeps to avoid tire slippage of sudden increase of engine drag so usually throttle up some on down shifts so I get a slight speed up before easing throttle to start engine drag. If over doing it from 1st to 2nd at some speed rear can hop and jerk snot out of drive train, on pavement. Some times though you'll learn when its better to use clutch some to stay in a smooth operator sense. For actual dragster use one drops clutch at high enough rpm engine don't bog yet not so high to wheelie vertical+, then hit WOT till out of rpm then holding WOT tap kill button and shifter in same instant with some tire spin catching rubber on engagement.

I don't use the clutch on up-shifts, all I do is back the throttle off slightly then stand on the lever, however it is always necessary to match the revs when coming down through the box. I tried to race with the standard gearbox and always found it difficult to be smooth. If you try to rev the motor with heavy flywheel to match the revs with the standard box, it always seems too slow to respond and takes too much throttle and time to get a smooth change. With the close ratio box, the changes are almost instantaneous and very smooth, and all that is needed is a quick blip of throttle. I grew up in the era of rock hard triangular tyres, and the slower difficult down change you get with the standard box tends to freak me out a bit. In the old days, you only hard to chirp the rear tyre and you were on the deck, especially in the rain.
If you are using your bike on public roads this stuff should not worry you unless you are a speed freak.

Alan I had a 2nd to 1st clutchless down shift to slow to turn off hwy into a driveway happen on Peel once going about 30 mph in the wet, rear drag started rear to weather vane slide down road crown, ie: passing my hip on side I intended to lean into turn on, But this was on tri-linked Ms Peel and me trained on THE Gravel, so had time as cross up increased to glance down to make sure I was in 1st to see it was and know I could snap on throttle [w/o hook up] which spun rear up to swing it back in line then out a bit the out side of turn then cut throttle as we aimed back inline with drive way at same time it hooked up well for a slight hi side back up right to hit the grass with wheels in line to then slow with both brakes and park. All happened in about 3 sec space. I have had this happen on my SV650 which can't take the tires into frame conflicts like my tri link iso Peel so have ridden SuVee crossed up to get back up right like a man before flying right off drive way culvert into the muddy ditch 6 ft below to crumple into a mess. If I'd tried to control SV like Peel I'd ended up in ditch after road rashing me before flying sideways with bike landing directly on me instead of hitting tires/suspension first before ground giving way SPLAT. AMC boxes may be the easiest clutchless shifters ever fielded.

thanks all. I'm used to clutchless changes on my modern bike, but couldn't remember what the old Commando would put up with. I use the clutch on downshifts always, on both the Commando and the 848.

this is a mechanic speaking. If you want to F..K your g/box go ahead. Think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is the clutch there fore?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Motorcycles have constant mesh dog clutch transmissions/gearbox's for the most part, if you have good throttle control skills it is little different clutch or clutch less on the up shift.
The throttle roll off,clutch lever action transition at gear selection time can do just as much harm as a ham fisted clutch less up shift.
Once the load is at the floating point its green verses red apples.

No. :|

If ya just put toe pressure in direction ya want next then let off or add some throttle till its shifted by magic w/o any other effort or slip clutch some to get er done, all at light throttle loads about regardless of rpm does it for me almost automatically for non traumatic seamless engagement that preserves everything.
I've found it almost impossible to grind gears in the lovely if fragile AMC box as either works like magic or it just don't no mater what. The only real downside danger is on how easy it will=does shift skill-less clutchlessly which if rpm to road speed not matched pretty close can snatch drive train some to equalize momentum with a jerk or tire chirp or instant Red Gravel Rash.
3 ways to work manual shifting
1.Granny Shifting as expounded by the best grandmothers watching children.
2. Double clutching which is very rarely if ever needed in our AMC's but boy howdy tractors and dump trucks do.
3, Speed Shifting, of which there are 4 variations though the clutchless WOT kill button tap-snicks is hard to beat for me to master-enjoy but harshest hits and traction risking. Fastest air and electric cycle shifters use this meanest method.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 431AAO5lZk

Clutches are for stop signs. Jim

:lol:

One thing I have noticed since my introduction to Commando's.
If I was looking at a Triumph gear set it would most likely have beat up engagement dogs and reasonable gears.
If I was looking at a Commando gear set it would most likely have beat up tooth faces and good engagement dogs (even with low mileage) so gear shifting technique seems to go out the window.

Size Twelve Clodhoppers ?



Technique . When its warmed up , it slices through . Cold & crankey it can baulk & miss , or worse - with the straight cut gears
clash toes on a bad day , smashing teeth snapping layshafts & bending / cracking mainshafts . So let it warm up thoroughly -
or at least get a bit warm . Untill your well practised - and DONT force it going slow .

Had someone graunch every shift punching the shift lever with Ex Cop boots as above . The shifters light , a Toe is enough
and give the sensitivity - doest require force * just sensitivity & co-ordination .

* The adjustment of chains & freedom of throttle operation has a considerable effect on the shift . If its all out and the running
is irregular it might not cut it - or baulk & if forced cause grief . That said , after a few miles temps up & shifts fine clutchless
except on colder winters days .

Button on the switchblock as killswitch could help downshifts if winding it on . High speed coordination into corners might be safer
using clutch periodically . As with the four speed and engine brakeing you can get the rear overly loaded up and trying to walk .
Hence these silly overun clutches on the Moto G.P. stuff for people that dont know how to ride or dont have any brakes . :twisted:

hobot said:

Alan I had a 2nd to 1st clutchless down shift to slow to turn off hwy into a driveway happen on Peel once going about 30 mph in the wet, rear drag started rear to weather vane slide down road crown, ie: passing my hip on side I intended to lean into turn on, But this was on tri-linked Ms Peel and me trained on THE Gravel, so had time as cross up increased to glance down to make sure I was in 1st to see it was and know I could snap on throttle [w/o hook up] which spun rear up to swing it back in line then out a bit the out side of turn then cut throttle as we aimed back inline with drive way at same time it hooked up well for a slight hi side back up right to hit the grass with wheels in line to then slow with both brakes and park. All happened in about 3 sec space. I have had this happen on my SV650 which can't take the tires into frame conflicts like my tri link iso Peel so have ridden SuVee crossed up to get back up right like a man before flying right off drive way culvert into the muddy ditch 6 ft below to crumple into a mess. If I'd tried to control SV like Peel I'd ended up in ditch after road rashing me before flying sideways with bike landing directly on me instead of hitting tires/suspension first before ground giving way SPLAT. AMC boxes may be the easiest clutchless shifters ever fielded.

Click to expand...

Somebody, somewhere, please make him STOP!!

lardygitTVR said:

Somebody, somewhere, please make him STOP!!

Click to expand...

You must have been in a coma the last couple of months, we now have the whole family, Chico,Harpo,Groucho,Gummo and Zeppo.

The SV650 ride into ditch was witnessed by Wes on our 1st ever timid ride together to see if could tolerate each other, was raining, he following on wet drum brake to slow down hill before entering Graveled gas station I decided not to pull in-cut him off the easy way in so extended my line to turn in sharper and let off all throttle and did fine till realizing though foggy shield it turned into THE Gravel > seeing it just as SuVee rear drag won to pivot on both tires and about to low side right off the culvert jerked up to take it full upright straight on but didn't quite land in bottom on far slope but a couple feet above bottom yet on both tire about prefect> into muddy grass slope that just snotted away. Dragged back to grade we were just dirty and Wes was even more up in the air on 'us' traveling again. But Wes recently dropped his wife on scooter twice on THE MUDDY Gravel so he knows those don't count any more than an animal strike.

I dare anyone to try to grind AMC gears shifting any way ya can unless some correctable fault inside. Ya may mis shifts or even a false N, but not noise or injury to AMC guts. The hardest to master is accelerating 1st to 2nd so leave that to ill informed experts and even those only do that shift clutchless if in mild dragger mood or may spoil ones sense of smooth operator.

When spanking sports bikes in the tightest chiances Peel would run out of rpm about 60 in first while pretty far over and could clutchless snick 2nd and not upset her line or angle of attack and gain some more on em. I tore her poor drive train up a number of ways doing that so i'm guilty of removing some good parts from the Norton gene pool.