Upgrading to Electronic Ignition

Skelly · Jan 19, 2014

I have a 74 850 that I'd like to upgrade to electronic ignition.

I'm looking for recommendations. I've heard that the Boyer requires a fully charged battery to run, and that the Tri SparKs do not. I'm just not sure the Tri_Spark is worth the extra bucks?

Also with respect to the regulator/ rectifier, any opinions on whether to go with the Tympanium or the Podtronics?

comnoz · Jan 19, 2014

The newer Boyers don't have the low battery problems any more but the tri-spark does give a more consistent idle.

Podtronics or Tympanium both work fine. Jim

Hobot · Jan 19, 2014

Been seeing more non-boyah issues last few years here interestingly.

Intriguing ignition device to ponder and seek out?
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/spark-of-anger

chasbmw · Jan 20, 2014

what I don't like about the TriSpark unit is that the electronics are kept inside the points cover. This makes a really neat install, but however well the electronics have been potted, I really think that inside a hot and really vibratory Norton engine is not the best place to put the electronic bits. mounted on the frame in the cool and isolated from most of the engine vibration is a better place.

I don't have any evidence to support my view apart from the only airhead electronic ignition that gave short term problems on airheads, was the unit that mounted the electronics inside the outer timing cover, which in itself is a more benign environment than inside the points cover on a Norton.

Boyers have been reworked to give reliable timing at much lower battery voltages, to match their competitors.

toppy · Jan 20, 2014

I have the very first type of boyer it has screw terminals not the often complained about bullet type on the pick up also a cheap type regulator/rectifier an have no problem with either you can kick it or press the Alton an it starts no problem. I think the boyer kickback problems are simple to avoid if your electrics are working as they should an the new boyer is capable of dealing with low voltage so I would not worry on that score an your budget an cost of the respective systems should be more of an issue to you.

Brooking 850 · Jan 20, 2014

I am still a fan of Pazon ignition systems, no issues with my Surefire
Regards Mike

concours · Jan 20, 2014

My vintage Boyer works fine. Battery charges fine, no issues.

Fast Eddie · Jan 20, 2014

chasbmw said:
what I don't like about the TriSpark unit is that the electronics are kept inside the points cover. This makes a really neat install, but however well the electronics have been potted, I really think that inside a hot and really vibratory Norton engine is not the best place to put the electronic bits. mounted on the frame in the cool and isolated from most of the engine vibration is a better place.

I don't have any evidence to support my view apart from the only airhead electronic ignition that gave short term problems on airheads, was the unit that mounted the electronics inside the outer timing cover, which in itself is a more benign environment than inside the points cover on a Norton.

Boyers have been reworked to give reliable timing at much lower battery voltages, to match their competitors.

That is a common 'gut feel' concern Charles. However, I am fitting one. I like Tri-spark having seen very impressive back-to-back results when changing from both Boyer and Lucas on BSA / Triumph triples.

Regarding the heat issue, I decided this was worth 'the risk' for 2 reasons:

1) I believe Steve Kelly at Tri-Spark knows his stuff, and would not sell something like this if it was likely to damage his reputation.
2) Electronics have moved on. Many modern cars and bikes have their coils built into HT caps and mounted directly on the spark plug, in the hottest part of the engine, with total reliability. That would not work with Lucas coils...

chasbmw · Jan 20, 2014

Fast eddie I agree its a very much of a personal decision, but its not only heat, but vibration as well and no modern cars vibrate like Nortons do!
The proof will be in the eating, probably 5 years down the line.
I seem to remember that the first Boyer I fitted onto a 72, back in 73, had all the electronics encapsulated in resin inside the points cavity, with a spacer to create enough room, that was reliable for the short period that i had the bike, I dont know when Boyers moved away from that design, but not long after.

Fast Eddie · Jan 20, 2014

chasbmw said:
Fast eddie I agree its a very much of a personal decision, but its not only heat, but vibration as well and no modern cars vibrate like Nortons do!
The proof will be in the eating, probably 5 years down the line.
I seem to remember that the first Boyer I fitted onto a 72, back in 73, had all the electronics encapsulated in resin inside the points cavity, with a spacer to create enough room, that was reliable for the short period that i had the bike, I dont know when Boyers moved away from that design, but not long after.

Norton's, vibrate?! How dare you sir..!

OK, fair point really. I'm still confident, but as you say, time will tell...

BTW... I thought I had a 'carb fault' causing a misfire at times, turned out to be a wire very nearly broken through and intermittently contacting at the circuit board soldering point on the pick up back plate of the BOYER fitted to my bike !

I see you're in the UK Charles, if you're a dab hand with a soldering iron, and want a Boyer, you can have mine for the price of the postage...

Johnnymac · Jan 20, 2014

I just fitted a Boyer to mine. Works just fine. I have my bike on a Battery tender when it's sitting so I never have any trouble with it starting. I used to have points and they worked great...but when I rebuilt the motor, I figured why not. Turns out my AutoAdvance springs were shot. -which is weird because it ran great.

OldBalz · Jan 20, 2014

chasbmw said:
what I don't like about the TriSpark unit is that the electronics are kept inside the points cover. This makes a really neat install, but however well the electronics have been potted, I really think that inside a hot and really vibratory Norton engine is not the best place to put the electronic bits. mounted on the frame in the cool and isolated from most of the engine vibration is a better place.
[/quote

Chasbmw,

Every time that there is a thread that mentions Tri-Spark ignitions you repeat the same sorry reply by stating that you don't like them because they are mounted inside the points cavity. I'm requesting that you provide evidence to substantiate your claim regarding this. You have been asked to do this numerous times, in previous threads, yet have failed to do so.

Stating that you don't like them because of heat-related issues is an unproven by you, unless you can produce some factual info. Have you ever owned a Tri-Spark ignition? My guess is probably not....... I do own a Tri-Spark and it has worked flawlessly for the last two years.

Your anti Tri-Spark rant has become tiresome, repetitive and pointless. In my country we like to challenge BS by saying "Put up or Shut up" so what's it going to be?

mike996 · Jan 20, 2014

Well, I'm a Trispark fan. The thing's been working flawlessly for years now. I went from a previous electronic ignition back to points shortly after I bought the bike in '06 and believe, me going back to points/aau was an upgrade in every way! I had no intent to install an e ignition from then on but I was intrigued by the TriSpark when I first heard about it in 08 or thereabouts and figured I'd give it a shot. I don't hesitate to recommend it based on my experience!

rvich · Jan 20, 2014

I don't know why this always turns into an argument. I don't see anybody bashing Tri-Sparks here. There are lots of people who don't like the idea of putting the electrics in the points cavity. It is as valid a point for making a choice as any.

I have had two Tri-Sparks fail. I still love the way my bike ran when I had them installed. Why did they fail? Nobody knows, or if they do has ever said. Its been debated plenty and yes, I have been accused of various sins against my ignition because people don't want to accept that it might be true. That is how much people love these ignitions.

I have my strong opinions about what might have caused them to fail, but since I cannot offer proof it would seem pointless to offer it now. I can tell you the Tri-Spark will help mask carb problems. It works that well. So is it worth the money? You will have to decide for yourself.

Russ

pete.v · Jan 20, 2014

I think the TriSparks are real perty(pretty). It seem a shame to have to cover them up.

Anyhow, I think the best bang for the buck is the Pazon SureFire. You can buy 2 of these for 1 TriSpark and the 7 1/2 year warranty is nothing to sneeze at. They do not have idle stabilization to cover up carbs that aren't running right or timing that may be a little off. approx $140 delivered

If your bike does not idle well and you just do not want to fiddle with it anymore, the expense of the Trispark maybe worth it.

I think Trisparks are good but are long on price and short on warranty. approx $340 delivered

Maybe a good alternative is the Altair. $100 less, all the warranty and the digital enhancements. $245 Delivered

chasbmw · Jan 20, 2014

I don't do rants.....just pointing out that the TriSpark design puts its electronics under more stress than alternative ways of doing things.
I see from the website that they have altered the material used for potting the electronics, it's stated to be softer. They don't say why they have done this. The original ignition for the 3 cylinder bikes has it's electronics in a box, mounted outside of the engine.

chasbmw · Jan 20, 2014

Fast Eddie said:
chasbmw said:

Fast eddie I agree its a very much of a personal decision, but its not only heat, but vibration as well and no modern cars vibrate like Nortons do!
The proof will be in the eating, probably 5 years down the line.
I seem to remember that the first Boyer I fitted onto a 72, back in 73, had all the electronics encapsulated in resin inside the points cavity, with a spacer to create enough room, that was reliable for the short period that i had the bike, I dont know when Boyers moved away from that design, but not long after.

Click to expand...

Norton's, vibrate?! How dare you sir..!

OK, fair point really. I'm still confident, but as you say, time will tell...

BTW... I thought I had a 'carb fault' causing a misfire at times, turned out to be a wire very nearly broken through and intermittently contacting at the circuit board soldering point on the pick up back plate of the BOYER fitted to my bike !

I see you're in the UK Charles, if you're a dab hand with a soldering iron, and want a Boyer, you can have mine for the price of the postage...

Fast, thanks for the offer, my new to me 750 has an old style Boyer MK 111 fitted, but as I have not yet tried to start the bike, I don't know whether to not it will work, so I might be getting back to you in the next 3 weeks or so!

Hobot · Jan 20, 2014

Some early Trispark uses had heat shut down issues just a rest recovered and some have vented the cover for this reason but feedback to trispark apparently caused an upgrade in the heat tolerance or was just a few flukes in production process.

Upgrading to Electronic Ignition

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