un-lacing the spokes for repair/polishing

How involved is it to un-lace the wheel? Seems straightforward enough, like many things...
I want to repair a couple of rusty spokes, polish the rim and brake hub. I figure I will send the polished cleaned up parts to Buchanan Spoke and Wheel in CA to re-lace. http://www.buchananspokes.net/ Their web site notes a price of just under $100 to lace and true. I'm sure there is a developed knack for this kind of repair. Or maybe not? Have you done it? Would you do it again? Or is the $100 bucks the best deal in the world!
thanks!
Kurt

I bought some new SS spokes and new chromed rims for my 69 and re-laced them. It didn't seem like much of a project, but then I like to do things with my hands and appreciate a bit of a challenge. The first one I did, I got the spokes backwards, that is they were pointing the wrong direction. I borrowed a mount a friend had and used the original spindles to true them. You could easily make a jig with some 2x4's. There are several instructions on the web if you look for them. First thing is to make copious notes, make pictures of where everything is. the truing was not as bad as I thought. Make measurements of where your rims are now in relation to the hub and if they are true and centered correctly. My old rims were centered ok, but the front had about a 3/8" warf in one place. When I initially installed the spokes, the rim was within 1/4" of being true, and it took me about a half an hour to get it less than 1mm. Then it was not centered, and I just loosened one side and tightened the other by equal turns. Seemed as though a 1/4 turn will move the centering about 1mm. I don't know how Buchanans can center the rim since they don't have the frame or front end. I'm not trying to speak badly of them, just making a comment. Personally I feel as though lacing is not magic. It just takes some time and I can see that after a few, one could get really good at it. Actually I rather enjoyed it. My front wheel went together like nothing, but the rear, the spokes would not go into the rim holes without bending. I learned that you have to bend the neck of the spokes where they go into the hub to get them to lace straight. Once I did that, everything went fine.

If you need any more info, let me know.



Dave
69S

I took everything apart, and just had them use new spokes. Buchanan's sell kits of stainless steel spokes for around $80... not too expensive, and they are thicker gauge material than the original

If you're not gonna reuse the old spokes can you just take a cutoff wheel to them or is there good reason to gradually loosen each one?

I had the front wheel done by Buchannans with polished stainless spokes and the results are superb. Now the back ones look ratty by comparison and I want to get them done the same way.

As always, taking it apart is the easy part.

I had someone show me how to true it my first time but with the internet it may not be too bad re-lacing it yourself the first time.

Take some photos for reference. There can be up to 4 different type spokes on a wheel depending on the hub. Inside and outside spokes are the 1st difference. The outside have more of a bend in the top as the run around the outside of the lip of the hub to the center of the rim. Inside spokes run from the inside of coarse. Next take note of the cross pattern (does each spoke cross one, two or three spokes that run the opposite direction on the same side of the hub). There are often rub marks on the spoke where it crossed the others that tell you the pattern on re-assembly. All spokes are set in place loosely to get the nipples on each one and then you start tightening them evenly a bit at a time.

A trueing stand can be made with 2x4's. nail 2 - 18" 2x4's to an 8" one, forming a triangle with the flat 4" sides facing in and cover one side of the triangle with plywood. The short 8" side is the base. You need 2 of these triangles so your axle can sit between them. Once you start tightening the spokes you can place a pencil along the 2x4 out to the rim and check for sideways movement and up and down movement. Use the spokes to pull the rim into place. Bends in the rim can be straightened but not always. We used to go for 1/8th tolerance but you can get it much closer with a good rim.

RennieK said:

A trueing stand can be made with 2x4's. nail 2 - 18" 2x4's to an 8" one, forming a triangle with the flat 4" sides facing in and cover one side of the triangle with plywood. The short 8" side is the base. You need 2 of these triangles so your axle can sit between them. Once you start tightening the spokes you can place a pencil along the 2x4 out to the rim and check for sideways movement and up and down movement. Use the spokes to pull the rim into place. Bends in the rim can be straightened but not always. We used to go for 1/8th tolerance but you can get it much closer with a good rim.

Click to expand...

You know, for a road bike I'd like to have much higher tolerances on the wheel rebuild than a wood stand and a pencil. Is that just me?

For my off-road bikes (especially the slow moving trials bikes) it's not that big of a deal, and even then I took a dial indicator to them.

If you're not going to re-use the spokes, you can just cut them with a small bolt cutter. This is what the local shops do, as you can be disassemble a wheel in about 15 minutes.

I took mine apart manually, cleaned up my own rims and hubs, and re-assembled using the stainless Buchanan spoke kits that most Norton dealers sell. They were around $90 dollars a set.

As I had not re-spoked a rim in over 25 years, I took a picture of each rim, and made a diagram of the lacing pattern. As stated elsewhere, there can be either two or four different spoke types for each rim - inner, outer, and perhaps left, right - spokes on the inside of the hub are bent to just under 90 degrees, spokes on the outside of the hub are bent just over 90 degrees. On initial assembly, run the spokes about 3/4 of the way into each nipple, then tighten each nipple up until everything's snug. Put the rim on the truing stand, and do the final tightening, taking care to ensure the rim is straight, true and round, with the proper offset. Once you are done, you should be able to play the wheel like a harp, with all the spokes in about the same tone. High pitch - too tight, low pitch, too loose.

It sounds a bit daunting, but its actually not that hard. I had fun with it. If you can't get it true, just back off the nipples and start over. If you're truly stumped, send it out. My local guy tells his customers to go ahead and try, and if they can't do it, bring the wheel in a little loose, and he'll finish it.

Its important to have a good spoke wrench. I ended up getting two small Craftsmen wrenches, and taping them together, so I would have more contact area on the nipple. The wrench my local guy uses is really beefy, and about 7" long. It makes tuning the spokes a breeze. I know Buchanans sells these wrenches.

You'll need a die grinder or Dremel to cut off any excess spoke sticking through the end of the nipple - otherwise it could eventually cut into the tube.

Hello kwb210,
Last fall I did just the project you are asking about. After 35 years the spokes in my bike had taken on the shine of a lead fishing sinker. I first tried some metal polish, alot of work and impossible to get the complete spoke, so I pulled one out (had the wheels off to rotate the tires anyway) and buffed it on my rag wheel. It took about 5 minutes and the result was wonderful, but one just won't do, you gotta do all 40, and if you do one wheel you are committed to do the other, that's over six hours of buffing. Once you are done with the spokes you'll want to buff the hub and rim while you are at it. Fortunately I have laced many many wheels during my bike mechanic career, but the Norton wheels are a little more complicated than say your typical Japanese wheel. Be careful to measure the offset of the rims before you dismantle them and as someone previously mentioned there are four different spoke styles on the front rim, not only that, but half of the front nipples were fine thread and the other half were course. Given the time it took to polish the spokes, if I was to do it again I would consider buying the SS spokes (or maybe even chrome). One more thought, I have previously laced some BMW wheels with SS spokes, and to tell you the truth if you want them to look nice you'll have to polish them before installation.

GB

swooshdave said:

RennieK said:

A trueing stand can be made with 2x4's. nail 2 - 18" 2x4's to an 8" one, forming a triangle with the flat 4" sides facing in and cover one side of the triangle with plywood. The short 8" side is the base. You need 2 of these triangles so your axle can sit between them. Once you start tightening the spokes you can place a pencil along the 2x4 out to the rim and check for sideways movement and up and down movement. Use the spokes to pull the rim into place. Bends in the rim can be straightened but not always. We used to go for 1/8th tolerance but you can get it much closer with a good rim.

Click to expand...

You know, for a road bike I'd like to have much higher tolerances on the wheel rebuild than a wood stand and a pencil. Is that just me?

For my off-road bikes (especially the slow moving trials bikes) it's not that big of a deal, and even then I took a dial indicator to them.

Click to expand...

With a good wood stand and pencil you can do fine work. The other tool in this combination is your eye. The pencil or a marker will leave a mark where the high spots are which is nice once you stop the wheel to make adjustments, then wipe off and spin some more. Many rims have a 3 - 4" area near the weld that is not perfect or if you've ever jumped a curb or hit something to put your wheel out of round you may never get it closer than 1/8th but the outside edge of the tire will be true. The tire absorbs quite a bit of this "slop".

It's nice to have all the top tools but quite often one can get the job done with simple homemade solutions.

There's no actual need to make any sort of wheel stand or jig.
As wheels can simply be refitted to the forks or S/arm with the mudguard/fender removed, and then trued-up using pointers fixed to the forks/frame with rubber bands, or something similar.
Although having a motorcycle stand or workbench so that the whole thing can be raised up to an easy working height does make it much easier.

Would I be correct to say the disc brake models are the only wheels with an off-set to them and my pre-'71 would not have any type of off-set front or rear? I've relaced my wheels, seemed pretty easy, just waiting for my buddy who has trueing experience to show me how to "true".

kwb210 said:

How involved is it to un-lace the wheel? Seems straightforward enough, like many things...
I want to repair a couple of rusty spokes, polish the rim and brake hub. I figure I will send the polished cleaned up parts to Buchanan Spoke and Wheel in CA to re-lace. http://www.buchananspokes.net/ Their web site notes a price of just under $100 to lace and true. I'm sure there is a developed knack for this kind of repair. Or maybe not? Have you done it? Would you do it again? Or is the $100 bucks the best deal in the world!
thanks!
Kurt

Click to expand...

If you replace the two ratty spokes with new ones then they are going to stand out, so you should basically replace them all. Add $100. If you do one wheel then the other is going to stand out so you should probably do them both at once, add $200. That would be $400 for a couple of rusted spokes. You don't mention whether it's front or rear, disc or drum. A front disc wheel has so much offset with such a difference in spoke tension that it's not an amaturish job, that goes double if it's an alloy rim. I would lace and true wheels if you derive enjoyment out of that sort of thing. I wouldn't do it with the idea of saving money because you might be getting less than minimum wage before you're done.
Buchanans sells spoke wrenches for $20. They are worth it. Not only do they have a long handle so you can get a get feel for the torque, they are ground and hardened. They fit the nipples exactly. Nipples are a very thin walled nut. If the wrench you use is a loose fit it can round over and bend the nipple out of shape and screw up the relationship between torque and actual tension.

BillT said:

If you're not going to re-use the spokes, you can just cut them with a small bolt cutter.

Click to expand...

Quick and easy.

i won't be relacing any more wheels until I retire. There is a place called Wheelworks in Hayward that does a nice job and Chris is a nice guy. His shop is a treat of old bikes.