TVS News-2023 Annual Report. Does no news equal good news, or does hiding the news mean something?

City Garage

City Garage

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The new report is out. You can see it here

The opening remarks regarding Norton are below and are blase

The Norton Motorcycle Co Limited, UK) During the financial year 2022-23, The Norton Motorcycle Co. Limited (UK) (Norton) has started handing over the bikes to the customers from the new state-of-the-art facility established in Solihull, United Kingdom. Norton has launched new 'Commando 961 Sports' bike with completely redesigned components. A clear distribution strategy has been established with plans to have a mix of sales direct to customer and through dealers. It has already set up few dealers in United Kingdom and has formed or firmed up its product plan with a series of new products to be launched in coming years catering to various markets and segments in the premium motorcycle market. Norton will continue to focus on improving the quality standards and supply chain as it steps ups the production volumes and for the new products in the coming years as part of its journey of relaunching this iconic brand to its rightful place at the global level.


They don't say anything else. Most likely because there isn't anything positive to say, and they are losing a ton of money.

The most positive from the report "formed or firmed up its product plan with a series of new products to be launched in coming years catering to various markets and segments in the premium motorcycle market."

And remember, anything above the 350cc market is "premium" to them
 
New state of the art facility? Never heard that one before. When did this happen?

How new can something be before it’s no longer new?

Completely redesigned components?
Premium?
 
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Maybe TVS could hire you two muppets to run things!?

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Stephen_Spencer said:
View attachment 107930

Maybe TVS could hire you two muppets to run things!?

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SS I couldn’t agree more. You and I finally agree on something. After all, CG and I are business owners.

I know we’d have your support. Even if we did it wrong, you’d still tell everyone we’re doing it right. Good to be optimistic.

You can quit your job at the nuclear power plant.
I’d hire you to be our product spokes person!
When can you start?
 
Voodooo said:
SS I couldn’t agree more. You and I finally agree on something. After all, CG and I are business owners.

I know we’d have your support. Even if we did it wrong, you’d still tell everyone we’re doing it right. Good to be optimistic.

You can quit your job at the nuclear power plant.
I’d hire you to be our product spokes person!
When can you start?
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If only they had square wheels….
 
Great idea, I can start right away - as you guys say, everything is f%&*d over there so no time to lose!

Product spokesman? Square wheels 🤔? They’d have to be premium!!

TVS News-2023 Annual Report. Does no news equal good news, or does hiding the news mean something?
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Great idea, I can start right away - as you guys say, everything is f%&*d over there so no time to lose!

Product spokesman? Square wheels 🤔? They’d have to be premium!!

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Was designed some time ago....but no doubt the TVS crowd could tell you they've totally redesigned it and then charge accordingly...whilst everyone else has moved on massively with round wheels instead 👀😂
 

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Stephen_Spencer said:
Great idea, I can start right away - as you guys say, everything is f%&*d over there so no time to lose!

Product spokesman? Square wheels 🤔? They’d have to be premium!!

View attachment 107940
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Here is our new design product.
Can you spot the 301 changes our engineers have made at our multimillion dollar Donington Castle?

We have taken great pride to providing the most innovative design and technology in our entire history of building a great brand.

Just like the original bike over 3 years ago, a Commando 961 will not tell you when to change gears, it will not take electric charge of the throttle and it will not get between you and the simple pleasure of a well-earned and over priced ride. Instead it offers unproven reliability when you require it, (We cannot prove this as of yet, we only sold just a hand full)
Comfort when you want it and the roar of a petrol powered British twin when you ask for it. Quite simply the Commando 961 is everything you wish you needed in a modern bike and everything you don’t.
 

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Genuine question Scott. Have you thought about selling your two 961’s, joining the Ducati forum and just moving on?

It may be better in the long run - for your health I mean. Anxiety and stress are the enemy as we age - suffered from it myself.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Genuine question Scott. Have you thought about selling your two 961’s, joining the Ducati forum and just moving on?

It may be better in the long run - for your health I mean. Anxiety and stress are the enemy as we age - suffered from it myself.
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Here’s an answer to your question.
I don’t own just Ducatis and Nortons.
I also have Triumphs, and owned Harley’s.

Nobody wants to buy a newer bike you can’t service. Especially outside the country of origin.

I’m a member on many Ducati forums.
I’m a member on many Triumph forums.
I like my Nortons. Especially the Domi.
I don’t dislike my Nortons, I love them.

Probably love them too much that it bothers me how things were and are handled.

I like many other brands. Including CCM, MV, Moto Guzzi etc.
I’ve been eyeing the new Buell.

I dislike the fact that TVS makes it seem like we don’t exist.
I dislike the fact that TVS refuses to share any information on changes that they clearly know.

My health is tip top.

My questions for you are…
Why do you complain about the price of a seat for a premium bike brand?

Just makes me wonder what you’ll do when you need real parts to keep the bike running.

Why do you act as if TVS Norton is the greatest brand available?
You support and back every move and choice TVS makes and see them never in the wrong.

Your optimism of TVS is just annoying to me as my negative outlook of TVS is to you.

I have no Ill feelings towards you personally. None at all. We just disagree on some things motorcycle brand related.

I’d have your back in every situation in life, on TVS, you’re on your own 😂
 
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Seems none of you have even read the report, look at the financials. It makes Garner look like a good businessman. if some on here think that it is OK for such a company as Norton within the TVS group to post losses greater than all the other loss making companies in TVS Group put together by a large margin, then you are missing the point. TVS Group has shareholders and I doubt they would be accepting the current annual loss let alone the loss the year before. TVS Solihull is a black hole for pouring money into, sadly it is looking like it always will be that way. They bit off more than they could chew, did not do their due diligence, and had no plan and the birds are coming home to roost. They should immediately drop the premium wishful thing and produce sensible and decent bikes the majority will buy.
 
Madnorton said:
Seems none of you have even read the report, look at the financials. It makes Garner look like a good businessman. if some on here think that it is OK for such a company as Norton within the TVS group to post losses greater than all the other loss making companies in TVS Group put together by a large margin, then you are missing the point. TVS Group has shareholders and I doubt they would be accepting the current annual loss let alone the loss the year before. TVS Solihull is a black hole for pouring money into, sadly it is looking like it always will be that way. They bit off more than they could chew, did not do their due diligence, and had no plan and the birds are coming home to roost. They should immediately drop the premium wishful thing and produce sensible and decent bikes the majority will buy.
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I think I summed it up nicely. "and they are losing a ton of money"
 
City Garage said:
I think I summed it up nicely. "and they are losing a ton of money"
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Indeed. As you said, Norton is by far TVS' biggest loss maker. Also a bit interesting, if I read it right, is that TVS' biggest profit maker by far is TVS Credit Services LTD.

Ken
 
Again for those that didn't look. If you see how they grouped Norton, you will see the future will be EV for them. Hybrid in the future, perhaps. The Prius of motorcycles?

Subsidiaries of TVSM Singapore
18.The GO Corporation, Switzerland (GO AG)
19.Swiss E-Mobility Group (Holding) AG, Switzerland (SEMG)
20.The Norton Motorcycle Co Limited, UK
21.TVS Digital Pte Ltd, Singapore 22.EBCO Limited, UK
23.Celerity Motor GmbH, Germany (From 06.12.2022)
 
I was wondering about hybrid from a past cryptic comment.
 
City Garage said:
I think I summed it up nicely. "and they are losing a ton of money"
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Madnorton said:
Seems none of you have even read the report, look at the financials. It makes Garner look like a good businessman. if some on here think that it is OK for such a company as Norton within the TVS group to post losses greater than all the other loss making companies in TVS Group put together by a large margin, then you are missing the point. TVS Group has shareholders and I doubt they would be accepting the current annual loss let alone the loss the year before. TVS Solihull is a black hole for pouring money into, sadly it is looking like it always will be that way. They bit off more than they could chew, did not do their due diligence, and had no plan and the birds are coming home to roost. They should immediately drop the premium wishful thing and produce sensible and decent bikes the majority will buy.
Click to expand...

A little balance maybe. The only way for Norton Birmingham to make money is to sell motorcycles (spares, accessories/merchandise) - they have been doing so for just a few months, whilst developing a model lineup.

IMG_7839.jpeg

They have been in the ‘start-up‘ phase since purchasing the marque over 3 years ago. Every single logistical, structural, equipment, HR, brand building, design & developmental dollar since (possibly including business purchase price?) will show as a loss? Time and activity costs coin - the very reason the original investment dollars were provided. What do we expect the balance sheet for the last few years, this and (almost certainly) the next few to look like?

How many tens of million of (80’s) pounds did Bloor invest at Triumph, setting up over 10 or so years, before re-launching Triumph and starting to make a profit?

We all realise that Norton Birmingham has the advantage of a successful multinational motor company as owners however, my guess is that TVS has planned for the balance sheet to show significant losses over a business establishment period - and that shareholders are savvy enough to realise why this is required. They’re playing the long game right?

Who here is qualified to say that the current trajectory in either funding or time is wrong, inappropriate or terminal (from a business perspective)? Before they’ve even announced their (none-legacy) bike line-up or put in place any planned export links.

Has Norton/TVS made mistakes, almost certainly - will they make more, almost certainly. Show me a business that hasn’t. Will they ultimately succeed? We hope so, but who knows - it’s a massively competitive environment.

Not concerned if anybody thinks this is over-optimistic fan-boy content. In my opinion, and we’re all entitled to one, this is balanced middle ground commentary given that we don’t have a seat in Norton’s boardroom. Nor experience in running a multinational motorcycle company with revenue measured in the billions.

My opinion only.
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
A little balance maybe. The only way for Norton Birmingham to make money is to sell motorcycles (spares, accessories/merchandise) - they have been doing so for just a few months, whilst developing a model lineup.

View attachment 107980

They have been in the ‘start-up‘ phase since purchasing the marque over 3 years ago. Every single logistical, structural, equipment, HR, brand building, design & developmental dollar since (possibly including business purchase price?) will show as a loss? Time and activity costs coin - the very reason the original investment dollars were provided. What do we expect the balance sheet for the last few years, this and (almost certainly) the next few to look like?

How many tens of million of (80’s) pounds did Bloor invest at Triumph, setting up over 10 or so years, before re-launching Triumph and starting to make a profit?

We all realise that Norton Birmingham has the advantage of a successful multinational motor company as owners however, my guess is that TVS has planned for the balance sheet to show significant losses over a business establishment period - and that shareholders are savvy enough to realise why this is required. They’re playing the long game right?

Who here is qualified to say that the current trajectory in either funding or time is wrong, inappropriate or terminal (from a business perspective)? Before they’ve even announced their (none-legacy) bike line-up or put in place any planned export links.

Has Norton/TVS made mistakes, almost certainly - will they make more, almost certainly. Show me a business that hasn’t. Will they ultimately succeed? We hope so, but who knows - it’s a massively competitive environment.

Not concerned if anybody thinks this is over-optimistic fan-boy content. In my opinion, and we’re all entitled to one, this is balanced middle ground commentary given that we don’t have a seat in Norton’s boardroom. Nor experience in running a multinational motorcycle company with revenue measured in the billions.

My opinion only.
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You could help them out by purchasing the seat and cowl you requested.
That donation would most definitely help TVS Norton out and help put them back in the profits.
 
Voodooo said:
You could help them out by purchasing the seat and cowl you requested.
That donation would most definitely help TVS Norton out and help put them back in the profits.
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Life is full of choices Voodoo:

- Norton has chosen to price the dual seat cowl at close to £1000, virtually guaranteeing that it will never be purchased; I think there may be an alternate explanation.

- Those needing this part can choose to have it made out of ally, carbon, fibreglass or plastic and painted for considerably less. Or make it themselves as at least one of our number has done.

- Bikers looking to purchase a Norton can come to this enthusiasts forum (and FB) for a balanced view on the re-engineered 961 and how things are going for the marque.

- You had a choice to comment on any element of that diverse conversation, or just take another pop.

IMG_7848.jpeg
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Life is full of choices Voodoo:

- Norton has chosen to price the dual seat cowl at close to £1000, virtually guaranteeing that it will never be purchased; I think there may be an alternate explanation.

- Those needing this part can choose to have it made out of ally, carbon, fibreglass or plastic and painted for considerably less. Or make it themselves as at least one of our number has done.

- Bikers looking to purchase a Norton can come to this enthusiasts forum (and FB) for a balanced view on the re-engineered 961 and how things are going for the marque.

- You had a choice to comment on any element of that diverse conversation, or just take another pop.

View attachment 107987
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Stephen.
Again
Why will you support and defend TVS choices, yet, you have a hard time swallowing the cost of a seat that is fairly priced?
The truth and honest explanation is…..you’re cheap.

Perhaps they….
1) know that it’s a part that will rarely sell or be needed. (Low demand)
2) know you own a Donington
3) they’re damn proud of that seat
4) knew you wanted it and like you

Why do you see the pricing of internal engine parts at fair price, but disagree with their pricing on body parts?
It’s a premium bike. Remember?
It’s a rare, low production motorcycle.

I have a brand new, single seat cowl, in black, still in the original Norton packaging. I’d sell it for $2000 usd. It’s rare and a premium.


TVS hasn’t “re-engineered” the Commando.
They claim it, but refuse to show n tell it.

What number of mistake was your 961?
 
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