Tuneing

Other than for Vintage racing use, is there any point to tuneing a road going Commando? Race cams Etc
I know we all did it 40 years ago,but that was an era where having the fastest bike on the block ment "Lot's of cred"..is a 125 mph Commando "cred" these days ,when Supersonic machine's can be bought?

Hi John, if it wasn't for the pure love for them, the interest in C'do pedigree, nostalgic feel, classic look and sheer thrill to ride, the answer would be no and you would not need to make your fork inserts for them!!! (I have one set and will be in the market for another)
I have one stock std C'do (engine wise) with after market goodies to make even more reliable for my tastes, EI, Flatslides your inserts.
Enhgine is std and hasn't been apart while I have owned it.
Bike # 2 project will have an engine that will also be reliable and have as much internals go fast bits as I see fit and can afford just for the pure fun and love of them.
May also be to see what HP it can produce above my std one, so the answer for me is yes!!!
IMHO
Regards Mike

john robert bould wrote;

is there any point to tuneing a road going Commando?

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Not really, but I just can't help myself trying. :lol:

I know I should just leave well enough alone, bit it's a constant battle fighting the urge to upgrade the engine.

I have resisted on my combat, only replacing worn parts , ditching the slotted pistons and upgrading to superblends. I will install one of my quick change cam bearings for future ease of maintainability.

My alloy bike is stock for now, with the exception of a SS cam, removable cam bearing, LH cam needle bearing, lightened and polished rockers, lightweight push rods, and mushroom head adjusters. At some point I will end up with an alloy barrel, and the full JS setup. That will depend on funding.

I know most of this is unnecessary and probably won't do much, but it's a deseise that I can't get rid of.

Hi John

I say yes, I like what I have done to my 850, the SS Cam grind, the balanced crank and all the porting to the head, JS Carbies, your kit in the frontend, I'm not intrested or need to prove myself no more but having a Norton that you can crack open the throttle when needed and still have the reliability as well lift the front wheel off the ground without trying is one of the best trills that I enjoy, I don't need to go 125 MPH but being able to get to and over the ton in a very short time is what I like, but better still being able to kick some arse off the lights when some young smart arse who thinks you are a old so and so on a old bike that they have never heard of, they soon get a big surprise, couldn't ask for better.

Ashley

Looks like JRB got the response he was looking for from us all!!!!! he will be in business for sometime like all the after market goodies manufacturers and sulliers
Regards Mike

There is no logic in cycles over 250 cc but for the shear joy of wasting time and money before your gone. The modern road missiles can not use their power fully in real life roads with interesting turns. To match or beat a modified Commando to the ton+ requires even the hi hp 600 bikes to run upper rpms while shifting 2-3 times for each of a healthy Commandos snicks. But the moderns are more stable on lumpy powered turns so its easy to go in on un-tamed Cdo and end up faster than it can tolerate near the end. Its said power costs money so how fast do ya want to go. My main joy on modified Commando is wiping sneers off with a seeming museum piece. My un-modifed factory Combat does not qualify to keep up with elites in good conditions so just a quaint fun bike that's destructive to try to max out so money goes into modifying one that can more than keep up, and not blow up.

John,
I had a Mkiia back in 1980. For reasons.......whatever, I lost it, it left my possession, I had to let it go.

I have had bike all my life, mini bike with a lawn mower motor, 80cc Suzuki Trail80, a beat up 68 Yamaha 250 enduro, Rd 350, xs850 special, and then the MKIIa. This is a rough history but sort of chronological.

When my life began to change for the good, I began to crave that old familiar feeling. That feel rang strongest with the last bike I owned. The only way I was going to get a bike was to get a loan and the only way I was going to get a loan was for a new bike (bank stuff).

I found that the only bike that I could compare to the Norton that was available to me was a Ducati. Got the Ducati 750 SS and it was a wonderful, fast, super handling, fuel injected, superbike. I added some nice carbon slip ons and upgrade the chip for a bit more torque.

Im going to try and shorten this up. I couldn't have gotten a nicer machine and I love it and loved to ride it. Although it had spirit it didn't have........real spirit....I guess.....It's hard to explain unless you've ridden the good, the bad the ugly and the sublime.

The Duc left me empty and i sold it. Kept my eyes, ears, and fingers open and waited for the opportunity and it finally arrived and aNorton was back in my possession.

The reason I upgrade with cam, carb, pipes, brakes, electrics and the endless available temptations is because I can and I deserve it. Even if I am the only one who realizes what I have, and most don't and the few that do know, really know, that would be just fine with me.

Well John, I hope this helps you understand the passion. I'm sure you do.

Good responce's :!: I suppose "we" old boys still retain that "Tuneing thing" providing it's not going to bust the baby!

Tuning does not have to be all about speed, but speed may be one of the benefits.

For instance, if you raise your compression you will get better fuel economy, a practical benefit, along with more power for practical and non-practical actions.

Same with jetting and porting.

Not all tuning has to by synonymous with impractical road use.

As supplied new there is certainly room for things to be done to Commando, or any Norton engines, especially the 850, that would make it both a better performer, and at the same time a more practical and better street bike.

The "tuning" that I've done on mine hasn't been specifically focused on ultimate performance. Among other upgrades I've added the Lansdowne kit, Amal Premiers, JS Stage 1 cam, CNW breather, upgraded front brake, Sparx 3 phase and Tri-spark ignition. Now I have a bike that handles better, runs faster and stronger throughout the rpm range, doesn't leak oil, starts with one kick and has a solid idle.

Some might say that I've tuned out a lot of the "character" of an old British bike. My opinion is that I've eliminated a lot of the negative characterstics of the bike and still retained the good ones, such as the look, the sound, the power and torque, the smoothness and the responsive handling.

mgrant said:

The "tuning" that I've done on mine hasn't been specifically focused on ultimate performance. Among other upgrades I've added the Lansdowne kit, Amal Premiers, JS Stage 1 cam, CNW breather, upgraded front brake, Sparx 3 phase and Tri-spark ignition. Now I have a bike that handles better, runs faster and stronger throughout the rpm range, doesn't leak oil, starts with one kick and has a solid idle.

Some might say that I've tuned out a lot of the "character" of an old British bike. My opinion is that I've eliminated a lot of the negative characteristics of the bike and still retained the good ones, such as the look, the sound, the power and torque, the smoothness and the responsive handling.

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Absolutely. It's the spirit within that cannot be negated. Even a complete Maney machine morphs the spirit within. I may have some bastardized carb on the back, yet the spirit is oh so nourished.

I often wonder about the value of the PW3 cam I fitted a couple of years ago....it doesn't come in till 5000 and really needs 6500+ to be noticed like today when I gave it a fistful leaving a lunchtime meet (semi-retired!) leant over over and it pulled the front wheel up with a clank from the forks. It probably wasn't that impressive but I felt like a 17 yo tw*t! as I headed for the oncoming traffic on one wheel for a second or two. So, tuning our Commandos probably isn't worth it but it's childishly fun sometimes. :wink:

I don't blame anyone for wanting to tune a vintage vehicle for road use, not least for reliability, which includes reliable starting, so carbs, ignitions etc., improving internals at rebuilt time simply because you need new parts anyway....etc. etc.

But I am glad not everyone does, just so people can actually see and experience what these things were actually like in the day....occasionally...

OK, my main Norton interest is Vintage racing rather than road riding....anyway at the last race meeting I visited was at the beginning of the month and being without a race bike I went just for a look see...and I drove there in my '56 MG Magnette, which is completely as original, actually it has the original starter motor and dynamo on it, positive earth and points ignition twin SUs and drum brakes, the journey was about 200 miles return....the way I did it!

Loved it, as I have not really been able to get out in the car much over recent years due to working 800 miles from home...but the bitch did bite, or rather tha familiar devil, thank you Joe Lucas 'prince of darkness', running at asteady 60 the heel on the contact breaker points broke and the old girl coughed to a halt....then again, be prepared, dip into carried spares and with the help of the AA patrol man, who had a torch! we fit a new set of points and drive on....into the worst rain storm I have seen in Southern England.....thank you again Joe Lucas for wipers that just about keep going and lights that just about glow in the dark! Just thank god I was not on original style cross plie tyres as well, or I really would have had some fun hitting walls of water at 50mph....there is such a thing as too much originality!

I swapped my 900SS rubber band Ducati for Trumph Thruxton which left yesterday trailered away by its new owner...oddly don't miss either..now just waiting on my Lansdowne kit.....and put the Ikons on.....maybe upgrade the brake m/c.....DT head steady would be nice.....and a tri spark ignition...and other enhancements that make it even more fun to ride.

Here in NZ we don't have much motorway and for me its all about fast and smooth on corners.... :roll:

If I want to go fast I have a classic BMW racer that.....and an R65 for daily use.

John ,Your kit is finnished and ready for postage,
Regards John Lansdowne-engineering.

72Combat said:

I swapped my 900SS rubber band Ducati for Trumph Thruxton which left yesterday trailered away by its new owner...oddly don't miss either..now just waiting on my Lansdowne kit.....and put the Ikons on.....maybe upgrade the brake m/c.....DT head steady would be nice.....and a tri spark ignition...and other enhancements that make it even more fun to ride.

Here in NZ we don't have much motorway and for me its all about fast and smooth on corners.... :roll:

If I want to go fast I have a classic BMW racer that.....and an R65 for daily use.

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But I am glad not everyone does, just so people can actually see and experience what these things were actually like in the day....occasionally...

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Everyone likes to see, hear and learn about factory clunker Commandos, but some aren't as pleased later with their decades younger bikes after a real life ride with an antique. When the going gets tough, best tune up I ever enjoyed was tri-links with Ford 8N modified forks and some mass shed. If ya don't need to slow up or let up in turns a good ole plain JaneCombat is a terrible thing to catch up with with toward the end of the easy opens. Looking forward to feeling modified power on top pf modified chassis with wheelie suppression.

john robert bould said:

John ,Your kit is finnished and ready for postage,
Regards John Lansdowne-engineering.

72Combat said:

I swapped my 900SS rubber band Ducati for Trumph Thruxton which left yesterday trailered away by its new owner...oddly don't miss either..now just waiting on my Lansdowne kit.....and put the Ikons on.....maybe upgrade the brake m/c.....DT head steady would be nice.....and a tri spark ignition...and other enhancements that make it even more fun to ride.

Here in NZ we don't have much motorway and for me its all about fast and smooth on corners.... :roll:

If I want to go fast I have a classic BMW racer that.....and an R65 for daily use.

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Cool, looking forward to it.

72Combat said:

I swapped my 900SS rubber band Ducati for Trumph Thruxton which left yesterday trailered away by its new owner...oddly don't miss either..now just waiting on my Lansdowne kit.....and put the Ikons on.....maybe upgrade the brake m/c.....DT head steady would be nice.....and a tri spark ignition...and other enhancements that make it even more fun to ride.

Here in NZ we don't have much motorway and for me its all about fast and smooth on corners.... :roll:

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This really resonates with me - I sold an 851 to buy the MkIIa, and haven't missed it at all (but I still have the bevels, which are a different thing altogether :mrgreen: ).
I put all the above mods on mine - and a belt drive - and I eventually put a Lockheed racing caliper on with a bigger disc.
I'm planning some long trips on it this year, and will be fitting rearsets and flatter bars - it's the best Brit I've ever had by a country mile; no amount of upgrading would get my T140 this good - it's been mothballed since the day I got the Commando roadworthy!

I'm now working on a Production racer with a moderately tuned 750 motor to see if they can be made to compete with the bevel SS - I suspect it may just do that :wink:

For me the bottom line is an upgraded Commando is still 100% practical, and always attracts more attention than most other bikes out there.

To me all the mods have just made my bike easier to live with, safer have not detracted from it's character in any way. The only thing I don't care for is the Mikuni & that's just because I think it's ugly. The guys I ride with like to joke about the way my bike shakes when it's idling at a stop light. I say Thank god, that's what real motorcycles feel like!!