turn signal woes

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trappnman

trappnman

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Last summer, my wife and I went through our 72 combat that we hadn't had on road for 20 some years. Was my wifes bike, and she put a lot of miles on it in the 80s and early 90s before she went with an ironhead "bagger". Stored inside, so all in decent shape. What started out as a "just get running and sell" project turned out to be a through going over- new easy clutch cable, new wiring looms for main harness and headlight shell, Pazon ignition, new coils, carb rebuilds, etc. Luckily we have a Norton shop with complete inventory 40 miles away.

Got it starting on 1st or 2nd kick- running great and she put 500 or so miles on over a couple of days last year before put away for winter.

All is well on that front.

This year, we decided to put the turn signals back on. What I thought was an easy job, but alas it seems not to be.

I posted this on another platform as well, hoping someone can point me in right direction

  1. I have current running to handlebar switch, but I do not have current going to either turn signal wire. I've taken switch apart, cleaned the contacts- but have no juice on bottom copper strips even when I push tem tight to top contact- thus, I have no juice going out the turn signal wires. How can this switch go bad? can't be a more sihmple switch it seems- push a copper contact up to complete a circuit. Or am I missing something? In either case- not getting current to turn signals.
  2. 6 wires going to switch- G/R and G/W turn signals, W power, W/Y kill- what are the R/W and the G/B wire for, and where to they connect to main (new) loom? nether are connected at this point, and were not last year.
3) On the flasher, does it matter which terminal the double white, or the other wire go? or are they interchangeable? Also both are hot- I'd expect 1 to be hot one not- so is both hot normal?

Thanks in advance for any and all help- I'm baffled at this point.
 
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trappnman said:
6 wires going to switch- G/R and G/W turn signals, W power, W/Y kill- what are the R/W and the W/Y wire for, and where to they connect to main (new) loom? nether are connected at this point, and were not last year.
Click to expand...

WY from the handlebar switch kill button connects to the ignition system so for Pazon electronic ignition WY normally connects to the box white (negative) wire. As the bike has been running then is white connected to the Pazon box (bypassing the kill switch/button)?

WR does not connect to anything (as it's an unused starter motor switch/wire) but should be insulated as the terminal is live/hot when the button is pressed.

trappnman said:
On the flasher, does it matter which terminal the double white, or the other wire go?
Click to expand...

Connect white to the flasher relay 'B', terminal and light green/brown (LG/N) to 'L'.




trappnman said:
Also both are hot- I'd expect 1 to be hot one not- so is both hot normal?
Click to expand...

Yes, it should be hot to the handlebar switch until the direction indicators (either left or right) begin to operate.
 
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L.A.B. said:
Yes, it should be hot to the handlebar switch until the direction indicators (either left or right) begin to operate.
Click to expand...
If the flasher is good. Check the white wire on the flasher: 12v. Check the Lt Grn/Brn on the flasher: 12v. The handlebar switch common gets its power from the flasher on Lt Grn/Brn.
 
L.A.B. said:
Yes, it should be hot to the handlebar switch until the direction indicators (either left or right) begin to operate.
Click to expand...
marshg246 said:
If the flasher is good. Check the white wire on the flasher: 12v. Check the Lt Grn/Brn on the flasher: 12v.
Click to expand...

Presumably, trappnman already has, as he said: ...both wires are hot... although that doesn't guarantee the flasher relay will function normally.
 
L.A.B. my fat fingers mislead you- the W/Y kill wire is indeed connect to the white box wire. I meant to ask- what is the G/B wire for? (I corrected it in original post)

the info on the flasher hook up helps- thanks

on the switch itself. I do have juice to it- but even when I take switch apart, clean the contacts on back (the copper strips and contact point) I cannot get any current coming out of switch, at any wire. Seems like the switch is self explanatory and should work-but even when I press copper strop to contact using a test light- I get no current- put test light any where on top copper piece, and current at every point.
 
trappnman said:
I meant to ask- what is the G/B wire for? (I corrected it in original post)
Click to expand...

G/B?
Should be:
W, W/R, G/R, G/W, LG/N and W/Y.

trappnman said:
on the switch itself. I do have juice to it-
Click to expand...

But is it the LG/N wire as W doesn't power the direction indicators?
Edit: Or, more accurately, W is the power to the flasher relay, then changes to LG/N.


trappnman said:
but even when I take switch apart, clean the contacts on back (the copper strips and contact point) I cannot get any current coming out of switch, at any wire. Seems like the switch is self explanatory and should work-but even when I press copper strop to contact using a test light- I get no current- put test light any where on top copper piece, and current at every point.
Click to expand...

Direction indicator (DI) power goes to the switch cluster through the LG/N (from the flasher relay) then outputs from either the G/R (LH DIs) or G/W (R/H DIs.) so if there's power reaching the switch cluster through LG/N then that seems to point to faulty switch contacts or faulty G/R, G/W connections to the harness.
 
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ok- colors are faded -so that would be other wire

rainy day today so can't work on it (im a literal shadetree mechanic) but its starting to make sense

actually a lot of sense- the LG/N wasn't (isn't) connected, so thats the start place
.
If I hooked the flasher up wrong (it would be 50/50) would that damage it?
 
trappnman said:
If I hooked the flasher up wrong (it would be 50/50) would that damage it?
Click to expand...

Probably not, if, as you said LG/N wasn't connected.
Edit: Assuming when properly connected it's an original Lucas 8 FL two-pin flasher relay and not an electronic relay.
 
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turn signal woes
 
"
Edit: Assuming when properly connected it's an original Lucas 8 FL two-pin flasher relay and not an electronic relay.

Norton shop told me they don't use lucas, anymore but an automotive one on the bikes they rebuild- so thats what I have now. The original might still be good
 
trappnman said:
Norton shop told me they don't use lucas, anymore but an automotive one on the bikes they rebuild- so thats what I have now.
Click to expand...

That's ok as long as it's connected correctly (for original positive ground?) if it is an electronic relay.
 
A 2-wire, non-electronic flasher is simply a switch that is normally closed. Once a circuit is made (current is flowing) it opens for a time breaking the circuit and then closes re-making the circuit. Generally, it makes no difference which connection on the flasher is power and which is load. The white wire should be at -12 volts on a Norton (if you are still positive ground) at all times that the key is in the run or run/lights position.

This might help visualize the turn signal/flasher/indicator wiring:


turn signal woes
 
If I understand the diagram, not shown, is there a wire to negative from the flasher unit, which completes the circuit? Is the indicator bulb shown correctly? How does it earth / find ground?

Edit. "Flasher" is that the unit inside the headlamp shell?
 
Mart UK said:
If I understand the diagram, not shown, is there a wire to negative from the flasher unit,
Click to expand...

Yes.

Mart UK said:
Is the indicator bulb shown correctly?
Click to expand...

Yes, as it bridges the two sides of the direction indicators so the warning bulb uses the non-flashing side as its earth/ground.

Mart UK said:
"Flasher" is that the unit inside the headlamp shell?
Click to expand...

Yes but only inside the headlamp on the 850 Mk3. Pre-Mk3 it's attached to (either the front or rear according to the model) the frame plate at the rear of the battery compartment.
 
Mart UK said:
If I understand the diagram, not shown, is there a wire to negative from the flasher unit, which completes the circuit? Is the indicator bulb shown correctly? How does it earth / find ground?

Edit. "Flasher" is that the unit inside the headlamp shell?
Click to expand...
Yes, the flasher which is normally mounted in the middle of the bike gets a white (-12 volt) wire and a Light Green/Brown wire.

When normally wired, there is no flasher in the headlight shell, but it could be mounted there.

The indicator gets its ground from the side not selected. The turn signal bulbs are much lower resistance than the indicator bulb which basically makes them appear like a piece of wire to the indicator. This wiring is why you cannot use an LED for the indicator as wired - the current flows in opposite directions for left and right signals.
 
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