Trouble at Mill

ZFD said:
L.A.B,
You should become a German politician.
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:shock:


ZFD said:
The loan schene is for businesses that can offer no, or only insufficient securities and would normally not get a loan. The English government picks up the bill if the business fails.
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Has Norton Motorcycles defaulted on their repayments?
Has the business failed?


ZFD said:
In the meantime Santander selflessly pockets the interest on the loan (riskless profit!). A good scheme for Santander, but what about the English taxpayer?
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Santander are a bank, that's what banks do, loan money to make a profit on the interest as you mark up your spares so you can sell them at a profit (or you are doing something wrong?)!

ZFD said:
but what about the English taxpayer?
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Why the apparent concern for the English taxpayer all of a sudden? You could always lower your prices, as I'm sure that paying less VAT would help ease the UK taxpayer's burden. :lol: With the UK national debt currently standing at around [Edit:£1,038 billion GBP and still rising-lets keep some sense of perspective.
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/u ... onal-debt/
 
My brother-in-law and family currently live in the Uk, working for the Department of Defense. Going from Wisconsin (USA) to Okinawa (Japan) then to Lakenheath (UK) was an experience for them.

20% VAT to start with..... WTF??????
Gas at around $9 usd a litre......
Road Tax, Use tax, congestion charges and more taxes on the taxes.

How does anyone afford to live in the UK?

I know the Government in the States is messed up. It needs a reboot. It has gotten too far away from "for the people, by the people"

Our government bailed out GM and Chrysler, big mistake. When Harley started to have trouble, where was their help.

Mr. Gardner new what he was getting into when he brought Norton back. There is too much precedent out there.
The big problem I see is there was too much ambition to start it and not enough planning.

He picked the worst possible time to restart the company, right smack dab in the middle of a recession. Who has the money to buy an expensive toy?
He has to rely on his suppliers and has no power to control them. I see no backup suppliers in place. If company A can't get us the parts we will use company B, not happening.

I wish him luck, but as I keep reading accounts of missed deliveries and held deposits, he is alienating his customers. And soon he won't have any.

And I can't understand why someone would have their money held hostage for 2 or 3 years, finally get a bike, ride it for a few hundred miles, and then sell it.

The whole world is messed up, and the new Norton is just another part of it.
 
bwolfie said:
Gas at around $9 usd a litre......
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Petrol is around £1.33+GBP per litre in the UK (most of that is TAX) which is $2.09 USD per litre but it has been higher, so it's actually around $8.00 a US gallon at present.

A bargain! :)


bwolfie said:
Road Tax, Use tax, congestion charges and more taxes on the taxes.

How does anyone afford to live in the UK?
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Don't forget each UK household has to pay a yearly fee of £149.50 if they want to watch TV (black & white TV is cheaper).

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/
 
L.A.B. said:
bwolfie said:
Gas at around $9 usd a litre......
Click to expand...

Petrol is around £1.33+GBP per litre in the UK (most of that is TAX) which is $2.09 USD per litre but it has been higher, so it's actually around $8.00 a US gallon at present.

A bargain! :)


bwolfie said:
Road Tax, Use tax, congestion charges and more taxes on the taxes.

How does anyone afford to live in the UK?
Click to expand...

Don't forget each UK household has to pay a yearly fee of £149.50 if they want to watch TV (black & white TV is cheaper).

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/
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We are hovering around $3.99 a gallon currently. and my truck takes at least 25 gallons.

That TV license is insane. Do you also need a license to listen to the radio or breathe air?
 
To parapharase Lady Thatcher, in the end the
bill always comes due.
...that is for me and you as well as the government.

Time will tell.
 
bwolfie said:
My brother-in-law and family currently live in the Uk, working for the Department of Defense. Going from Wisconsin (USA) to Okinawa (Japan) then to Lakenheath (UK) was an experience for them.

20% VAT to start with..... WTF??????
Gas at around $9 usd a litre......
Road Tax, Use tax, congestion charges and more taxes on the taxes.

How does anyone afford to live in the UK? "

When touring there in 2007 gas was about twice the USA or Canada price, much as it is now.
I found that I spent about the same or less on fuel as when on tour in North America. Everything is much closer together.
There are no 3 day weekend 1400 mile rides thru the mountains. In fact there are no mountains to speak of!

We would plan our itinerary for the day, decided on the stops along the way and the end destination for the night. At about 11 am we were 75 miles down the road and all done for the day!
As time went on we got in the habit of travelling at a much more relaxed pace than when at home. Wewould typically ride 75 to 125 miles with lots of stops. The place is steeped in history, so there is a lot to take in!

I would love to go back in the near future, probably do a repeat of that 07 trip.

Glen
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There is an evil Cabal of bankster based bastards that some think have interbreed with reptiles so domination is only thing that motivates them. The whole world has been under attack by global schemers and their agents and they are wining. There is no such thing as real money anymore, that is something based on innate value like gems or metals, only IOU's debt with interest attached but never enough created to both pay off or rather "discharge" loans and cover the interest. So Fractional Banking must collapse at some point taking everyone but the banksters down with it. Bankruptcy and foreclosure is built into the system.
Philosophy for these banksters is take what ya can now and don't get caught. This trickle down economic philosophy seems to have settled into new Norton approach too. Thank goodness some us got to live though what may be the best of times ever in humanity but its dissolving so live it up while still serving gasoline to public.
 
worntorn said:
Vincent was in and out of and back in receivership for most of their post war years. During all of that they gave us the fastest production bikes the world had ever seen. They also gave us some fantastic engineering and bikes that remain useable and valuable sixty plus years later. I just finished a great 1400 mile ride thru the Rocky Mountains on his 38th machine out the door in 1946. Somehow Vincent ignored or got around the money problems and produced exactly what he set out to do, build the worlds fastest machine on two wheels or four, and make it to last. So do not count Norton out yet.
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Significant part of the above quote is:

"During all of that they gave us the fastest production bikes the world had ever seen. They also gave us some fantastic engineering and bikes that remain useable and valuable sixty plus years later."

In other words: THEY DELIVERED BIKES.

There's the rub!
 
bwolfie said:
How does anyone afford to live in the UK?
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However, I think the cost of medical insurance in the US is a lot more than it is the UK, because the NHS is state-run, the average British person doesn't pay anywhere near as much for medical insurance unless they opt to pay for additional "private" medical cover, so "it's swings and roundabouts".
 
bwolfie, dont get me going on the state of the country! gas at 9-10 bucks a gallon, Commando carbs set super lean :lol: someone said about paying to breath air...well its not free to pump up our tyre's!
L.A.B. said:
bwolfie said:
How does anyone afford to live in the UK?
Click to expand...

However, I think the cost of medical insurance in the US is a lot more than it is the UK, because the NHS is state-run, the average British person doesn't pay anywhere near as much for medical insurance unless they opt to pay for additional "private" medical cover, so "it's swings and roundabouts".
Click to expand...
 
Dear camshaft

I've read your piece and one part I don't understand is the part about the frame suppliers. If Stuart Garner owns Spondon then why on earth would he contract out the Frame? Spondon have been going for years and have a great reputation so that bit doesn't sound right. Also you quote the following:

This view was corroborated by Steve Gentil, director and co-founder of Xtreme Motorsports, who was contacted by Garner to fabricate frames for the 961 after Garner fell out with Xtreme’s predecessor, PAB Coventry. Gentil said:

” Our relationship with Norton in general and Stuart Garner in particular was problematic. Their business dealings with us left an awful lot to be desired. We no longer supply frames to Norton.”
Steve Gentil ⁷
Nigel Gibson is the MD of Fabriweld, 35 years in the business of manufacturing tubular steel products. In June 2012 the firm made 85,000 separate items, and Fabriweld have a solid business reputation. Fabriweld were contracted to produce panels for the 961. Nigel Gibson spoke to us about his perception of Norton, and his firm’s dealings with them.
“They were a nightmare to do business with. They had absolutely no understanding of the business they were in.”
Nigel Gibson ⁸
No wonder Fritz Egli had a parts problem. Likes so many others, Gibson had to resort to legal action to recover monies owed (to Fabriweld by Norton).
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A simple search for PAB and Fabriweld would suggest that you have got these mixed up, PAB manufacture panels and sheet metal parts, Fabriweld tubular products, so wouldn't Fabriweld have been the Frame makers? You talk a lot about accuracy so for your report to have any credibility then I suggest you do a bit more fact checking. I don't suggest the whole piece is a fantasy but if you want to be taken seriously (and you do make serious allegations) then your report has to stand up to scruitiny.
 
I subscribe to Norton on Facebook. They just announced today the acquisition and delivery of more equipment. Plus they now do the frames in house. It looks as if they are trying to do it all themselves, which might be a good thing as long as quality is up and costs are down. There was also a picture of "today's" bikes off the line, there were almost a dozen pictured. I doubt they have reached that pace thus far.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 5312_n.jpg
 
bwolfie said:
I subscribe to Norton on Facebook. They just announced today the acquisition and delivery of more equipment. Plus they now do the frames in house. It looks as if they are trying to do it all themselves, which might be a good thing as long as quality is up and costs are down. There was also a picture of "today's" bikes off the line, there were almost a dozen pictured. I doubt they have reached that pace thus far.

Trouble at Mill
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Except the naysayers here will just say those are customer bikes waiting for service or they are just shells. :roll:

Any good startup will outsource parts at the beginning. Not uncommon to bring it in-house as production and funding ramps up, if possible. Much better QA control at the least.

Then when production gets really high you ship it off to Thailand... :mrgreen:
 

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