Trouble at Mill

Trouble at Mill
 
swooshdave said:
Whether they acknowledge every blogger as "accredited media" is up to them.
Click to expand...

For the record, I've freelanced for various UK bike titles and have a good working relationship with people in the industry. If you check out the articles on electronic control systems - to take one example - on bikerglory.com you will find direct quotes from manufacturers or their accredited representatives who managed to find the time to talk to me, or supply machines for evaluation. You will also find extensive coverage of the development of the new Ariel, another Phoenix like UK brand, in this case guided by someone who has plenty of satisfied customers (ref Ariel Atom). Again, he found the time to not only have a chat but gave an extended interview. His position with Ariel is the same as Garner's at Norton, although courtesy of the Atom Ariel have a bigger turn over and more employees. It's no big deal, but if Honda can manage to answer my questions from Japan then it isn't unreasonable to assume that Norton might feel able to discuss their operation.

You might be interested to know that Consumer Action Group in the UK are conducting and independent investigation into allegations made by UK consumers gainst Norton. Believe me, neither they, nor me, nor the BBC (who have also been keeping an eye on this story) would bother if it were not for the fact that all of us were independently contacted by unhappy customers. I don't think any of us has the time to make this stuff up, and I don't think these people are fantasists either: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?313658-Norton-motorcycles-warning

Regarding the financing. I am not a financial journalist but my understanding is that the UK government have underwritten the approx £625k loan and that under the terms of that deal a greater sum is available (Norton Motorcycles on Wiki cite £7.5m but I've also seen a max of £1m referred to in The Independent). I'll check the terms and conditions but the inference is clear - the UK tax payer is potentially exposed.

It's understandable that people on here have brand loyalty, irrespective of whether or not the new outfit have earned it (personally I'd say Norvil have at least as close a connection to the historical reality). The fact is that Mr.Garner himself admitted to the BBC that there have been problems, so under the circs it isn't a great leap to suggest that those problems have not gone away. The alternative explanation is that people from various parts of the world have unilaterally decided to publically invent stuff about their relationship with the company. I don't believe that is the case, and I don't think anyone objectively looking at this would believe it either.
 
camshaft said:
It's understandable that people on here have brand loyalty, irrespective of whether or not the new outfit have earned it (personally I'd say Norvil have at least as close a connection to the historical reality).
Click to expand...

NORVIL !! Where do you keep getting these strange ideas from? :?
 
camshaft said:
swooshdave said:
Whether they acknowledge every blogger as "accredited media" is up to them.
Click to expand...

For the record, I've freelanced for various UK bike titles and have a good working relationship with people in the industry. If you check out the articles on electronic control systems - to take one example - on bikerglory.com you will find direct quotes from manufacturers or their accredited representatives who managed to find the time to talk to me, or supply machines for evaluation. You will also find extensive coverage of the development of the new Ariel, another Phoenix like UK brand, in this case guided by someone who has plenty of satisfied customers (ref Ariel Atom). Again, he found the time to not only have a chat but gave an extended interview. His position with Ariel is the same as Garner's at Norton, although courtesy of the Atom Ariel have a bigger turn over and more employees. It's no big deal, but if Honda can manage to answer my questions from Japan then it isn't unreasonable to assume that Norton might feel able to discuss their operation.
Click to expand...

So, that's nice. Maybe you've written a few articles. But as not a known name and I'm not surprised at all that they may have refused an interview. Remember they aren't a Honda with unlimited resources to answer every media request they get. But as a professional will you let that color your research?

camshaft said:
You might be interested to know that Consumer Action Group in the UK are conducting and independent investigation into allegations made by UK consumers gainst Norton. Believe me, neither they, nor me, nor the BBC (who have also been keeping an eye on this story) would bother if it were not for the fact that all of us were independently contacted by unhappy customers. I don't think any of us has the time to make this stuff up, and I don't think these people are fantasists either: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?313658-Norton-motorcycles-warning
Click to expand...

Yeah, I read that. Three whole pages and exactly how many ACTUAL folks who said they had money down? A dozen? Look, no one is saying that things may not be going smoothly but I'd also challenge you to interview some of the happy customers.

camshaft said:
Regarding the financing. I am not a financial journalist but my understanding is that the UK government have underwritten the approx £625k loan and that under the terms of that deal a greater sum is available (Norton Motorcycles on Wiki cite £7.5m but I've also seen a max of £1m referred to in The Independent). I'll check the terms and conditions but the inference is clear - the UK tax payer is potentially exposed.

It's understandable that people on here have brand loyalty, irrespective of whether or not the new outfit have earned it (personally I'd say Norvil have at least as close a connection to the historical reality).
Click to expand...

To redeem yourself I suggest you clarify which Norvil you are talking about and if it's the one I think you need to do a lot more research on one of the Norton manufacturers. :mrgreen:
 
camshaft said:
....... (personally I'd say Norvil have at least as close a connection to the historical reality).
Click to expand...

hahahhahhahahaha

to quote dave chappelle - quoting rick james

cocaine's hell of a drug!
 
There is a solo seat 961 for sale at the Norton Owners Club site, 17,500 gbp.
If I wasnt so broke from buying Terry Prince/ Vincent motor parts for the Glenli, I would go for it!

The owner is buying a dual seat bike, his wife wants to ride pillion.
The bike was listed for sale May 23, listing is still up.

Glen
 
Just been working on a RTV, The bike is a real work of art.
worntorn said:
There is a solo seat 961 for sale at the Norton Owners Club site, 17,500 gbp.
If I wasnt so broke from buying Terry Prince/ Vincent motor parts for the Glenli, I would go for it!

The owner is buying a dual seat bike, his wife wants to ride pillion.
The bike was listed for sale May 23, listing is still up.

Glen
Click to expand...
 
worntorn said:
There is a solo seat 961 for sale at the Norton Owners Club site, 17,500 gbp.
If I wasnt so broke from buying Terry Prince/ Vincent motor parts for the Glenli, I would go for it!

The owner is buying a dual seat bike, his wife wants to ride pillion.
The bike was listed for sale May 23, listing is still up.

Glen
Click to expand...


I'm not believing this story
 
Which story dont you believe?
1. That the bike is for sale
2. That Im broke from buying Vincent parts.
3. That has wife wants him too purchase a dual seat bike.

I find 3 a little iffy, likely he just needs the cash. Could easily convert the bike to a dual seat model if that was his true goal.
 
worntorn said:
Which story dont you believe?
1. That the bike is for sale
2. That Im broke from buying Vincent parts.
3. That has wife wants him too purchase a dual seat bike.

I find 3 a little iffy, likely he just needs the cash. Could easily convert the bike to a dual seat model if that was his true goal.
Click to expand...


Yeah, #3 sounds like the "iffy" part however I've never figured out why some folks feel the need to provide an excuse for selling something. I've bought hundreds of used items from tools to vehicles to expensive electronic equipment etc. and I could care less why someone is selling it. If the item happens to be on my want list I will assess the current condition and market place and will pay what I feel it's worth to me. Would I buy:
this bike …………………… if I could afford it? Dam right!
A Kenny Dreer 880 ………if I could afford it? Dam right!
A 1950 Indian Scout….…if I could afford it? Dam right!

I couldn't give a crap about what he says his wife wants or if he really believes the company is going down and he won't get his warranty oil changes etc. or if he thinks the world economy is crashing and he'd rather have the cash in the bank to watch it devalue from high inflation. I make my own mind up on that kind of stuff.

One good thing for sure, there's no waiting time on that deal. You can ride it home.
 
This was 1973 , its all been downhill since ? WHAT would THIS have cost to produce At the time . Notably the rotisary used T150 / 160 transmission internals initially anyway . So NO " itd neverave worked .' .

Trouble at Mill


EVEN IN this day and age . A quantity surveyor might give a clue to costings . Then theres the patented Disc Valve induction , for emmisions . :P
 
Though I knew most of it, the general public may be astonished. The more so, as the usual rags have hoorayed the affair for so long:
http://www.bikerglory.com/2012/08/the-n ... #more-2177

We have seen seriously underfinanced attempts at re-starting Norton several times before, and all know how they ended. Only those who believe in miracles may go on believing in this one.

The real problem is the cost per bike against sales price. Industry calculation is that 1/3rd of a bike's retail price can be spent on manufacturing cost, otherwise you cut corners on quality, marketing, spares, warranty, development, and, most important for the survival of a company, profits that can be re-invested.
 

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