Trouble at Mill

Very sad indeed, Norton's good name will be drug through the mud much like Indian. Maybe if Garner steps down or relinquishes control they could make it. Calling John Bloor!
 
Even though Garner is evidently causing figurative fireworks, he apparently hasn't been able to create actual fireworks on an ongoing basis...
 
ZFD said:
Though I knew most of it, the general public may be astonished. The more so, as the usual rags have hoorayed the affair for so long:
http://www.bikerglory.com/2012/08/the-n ... #more-2177

We have seen seriously underfinanced attempts at re-starting Norton several times before, and all know how they ended. Only those who believe in miracles may go on believing in this one.

The real problem is the cost per bike against sales price. Industry calculation is that 1/3rd of a bike's retail price can be spent on manufacturing cost, otherwise you cut corners on quality, marketing, spares, warranty, development, and, most important for the survival of a company, profits that can be re-invested.
Click to expand...

So they are having start up challenges. That "report" is filled with allegations supported with here say.

Here's a great example:

Nigel Griffiths told us that when his bike was in for servicing, the top end was removed for no apparent reason. His suspicion was that it was urgently needed to furnish another bike.⁸ It wouldn’t be a huge surprise, since Egli’s statement and the manager’s statement corroborate each other regarding the constant problems with supply of spares.
Click to expand...

Really? He assumed that the top end was removed and used on another bike? With zero evidence? And then to use that speculation to support an apparent part shortage? Lame.

This is shoddy reporting dressed up with fancy footnotes. The bias is incredulous. :roll:
 
Hoorayers of the world, unite, then!

I have nothing against start-ups, Swooshdave, but the sad fact is that to start a certain kind of business you need a certain amount of money. Single-figure millions, even two-figure millions (which were never there), get you nowhere in the costly world of the modern motor cycle industry. R&D in a competitive environment, added to which the ever-more restrictive emissions legislation, dictate a minimum amount one must start with.

Bloor is hailed here again and again, and called to the rescue. My sympathies for him are limited, but the one thing I have to give him is that his start-up was well financed and could digest the early years and the inevitable flops.

This was the first thing the old hands of Norton- ex Shenstone men- questioned about this start-up: "Does he know what it costs?"
 
ZFD said:
Hoorayers of the world, unite, then!

I have nothing against start-ups, Swooshdave, but the sad fact is that to start a certain kind of business you need a certain amount of money. Single-figure millions, even two-figure millions (which were never there), get you nowhere in the costly world of the modern motor cycle industry. R&D in a competitive environment, added to which the ever-more restrictive emissions legislation, dictate a minimum amount one must start with.

Bloor is hailed here again and again, and called to the rescue. My sympathies for him are limited, but the one thing I have to give him is that his start-up was well financed and could digest the early years and the inevitable flops.

This was the first thing the old hands of Norton- ex Shenstone men- questioned about this start-up: "Does he know what it costs?"
Click to expand...

At least he's trying.

If he was just in it to swindle people out of their money he's not doing a very good job of it.

Do you think Pa Norton was properly capitalized when he started?
 
Vincent was in and out of and back in receivership for most of their post war years. During all of that they gave us the fastest production bikes the world had ever seen. They also gave us some fantastic engineering and bikes that remain useable and valuable sixty plus years later. I just finished a great 1400 mile ride thru the Rocky Mountains on his 38th machine out the door in 1946.
Somehow Vincent ignored or got around the money problems and produced exactly what he set out to do, build the worlds fastest machine on two wheels or four, and make it to last.

So do not count Norton out yet.

Glen
 
All this talk of millions required, Richard Branson started an empire with nothing,Alan Sugar and Dyson, JCB started in a farm yard..and Bernard Mathews with 40 Turkey eggs! Garner just required a few turkeys :lol:
 
Swooshdave,
James Lansdowne Norton started with a bought-in engine and a bicycle frame in an environment overeager to buy means of self-propelled transport with virtually no legal restrictions, all from a little workshop whose only inhabitant, I suspect, was a certain James Lansdowne Norton.
If he eventually made it into producing his very own motorcycles a hundred years ago, what does this tell me about today's motorcycle industry?
 
Well we all know one hundred years on..things have changed a wee bit!
ZFD said:
Swooshdave,
James Lansdowne Norton started with a bought-in engine and a bicycle frame in an environment overeager to buy means of self-propelled transport with virtually no legal restrictions, all from a little workshop whose only inhabitant, I suspect, was a certain James Lansdowne Norton.
If he eventually made it into producing his very own motorcycles a hundred years ago, what does this tell me about today's motorcycle industry?
Click to expand...
 
ZFD said:
Swooshdave,
James Lansdowne Norton started with a bought-in engine and a bicycle frame in an environment overeager to buy means of self-propelled transport with virtually no legal restrictions, all from a little workshop whose only inhabitant, I suspect, was a certain James Lansdowne Norton.
If he eventually made it into producing his very own motorcycles a hundred years ago, what does this tell me about today's motorcycle industry?
Click to expand...

It just means that it's nice to start will millions in your back pocket but it's not the only way to do it.
 
ZFD said:
Swooshdave,
James Lansdowne Norton started with a bought-in engine and a bicycle frame in an environment overeager to buy means of self-propelled transport with virtually no legal restrictions, all from a little workshop whose only inhabitant, I suspect, was a certain James Lansdowne Norton.
If he eventually made it into producing his very own motorcycles a hundred years ago, what does this tell me about today's motorcycle industry?
Click to expand...


But then Norton were not particularly successful at the start and just stumbled along until 1913, when on the verge of bankruptcy, the company was bought out by R T Shelly & Co. who injected some real money into it and started the ball (or should I say wheels) rolling.

....Nothing changes! :roll:
 
I thought Vincent saw the writing on the wall 10 years+ before everyone else, and went back to their engineering roots.? Norton recently received $ from the govt for expansion, and we're supposedly starting to catch up. Me ,I'm saving my $ for one of those new Brough Superiors. Should have enough in 20 or 30 years!
 
Vincent`s motorcycle business was kept afloat [for a time] by govt contracts for aircraft target drone mills,[ & incorporated the developed improvements engineering-wise into his bikes], plus the govt export initiative schemes, but it wasn`t enough in the end..
 
Funny ; Perry cancelled his order for a dozen when he was instructed that they were building no more motorcycles as it was not financially viable at current prices .

Had enough calls in the next two weeks to have sold the lot twice over . Phoneing factory , was told " We are takeing no more orders " . Shouldnt have cancelled .

The ' Ceaseing of manufacture " had been front page news . Plenty of toffs were prepared to pay over marked price . IF PRESSED .( Perry was N.Z. importer for Vin )

Basically it was getting in the way of their profitable manufactureing , and their working capital had been eroded by the disaterous Amanda water scooter .

Trouble at Mill


Early Fibreglas tecnology wasnt all it could be. On a hot day ( in the U.S. ) they went all soggy . Ive always been adverse to a ankle in the prop . Wonder if
Hamiltons ( jet ) get royalties on the Jet Ski drive units ?
 
Somehow or another, what a friend of mine, who used to campaign Porsches in Europe, said about motor racing is applicable here:

Yes there's big money in racing (making motorcycles); I know, I put it there!

How do you make a small fortune in racing (making motorcycles)? Start with a large fortune!
 
L.A.B,
You should become a German politician. This is exactly what our government tells us about our guarantees for Greece: "They don't cost money. We have to pay up only if Greece fails! (And who would believe that?)"

The loan schene is for businesses that can offer no, or only insufficient securities and would normally not get a loan. The English government picks up the bill if the business fails.

In the meantime Santander selflessly pockets the interest on the loan (riskless profit!). A good scheme for Santander, but what about the English taxpayer?
 
dirtymartini said:
Very sad indeed, Norton's good name will be drug through the mud much like Indian. !
Click to expand...

Indian has recently been bought out by Polaris Industries*, for a reported bargain basement price compared to how much has been invested in it. Watch that space for new models.

(* owner of Polaris, and Victory Motorcycles)

Q. How do you make a small fortune out of manufacturing motorcycles ?
A. Invest a large fortune in it...
 

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