Trixie Combat 4.4th recovery ends & begins.

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins & ends

Not ripe for prime time blooper segment. Just to let some air out my sail and it was hard to start by hand at first...

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jAAWG1I1Hc[/video]

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins

On the short first 4th rebuild rides I sensed a buzz that was more horizontal harmonic than vertical so re-examined my expedient shim job compensation form L knee impression to find it skewed in a few ways. Basically shoved to the LH ~3/8" with stead plate to the rear 1/4"+ and too low ~3/8", so Lords mounts were seen to be pulled down and to the rear skewed.






A crow bar and an anvil and a 3 lb sledge got her better in line so maybe tomorrow will find out. Note the innate flexy engineering functioning.


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mm7tyrK350[/video]

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins

Dear diary, 4th time in a row on Trixie and still one show stopping fault and show stopping failure. Lost another day with Pazion as only real let down and wear down.

Rebuilt master cylinder as rust had eaten the end boot and crusted under inner seal. Did in mounted on the bars too so low effort repair success. So also open caliper no sweet and flushed cleaned in and reseal and bleed to function just like that.

Switched out the fired Tympanium with just some new terminal ends then eagerly opened Pazion SureFire for the easy desert part of the day before riding off into the sunset. Mounted brain box under coil pack and dead on good terminals and shrink support and dead on correct wire connections. Dialed in the static time and only got puffs and spits, kicked harder to get a .73 sec roar I could just catch a hint of too retarded by time light. So tweaked plate adv a tiny bit and she fired up on mid kick and rev'd right up and shut right off ~.76 sec later. oh oh. Pulled plugs kicked over 100 rpm but no sparks. oh oh

We checked wires, power in power to earth paths, key, kill, fuse and trigger leads, and static timed again the turned on and kicked through to get great bright big bluewhite parts, several times, then it went dead as a door nail.

Scratched ends and checked all again, even stabbing white neg power lead in to box to see it getting juice to the box, BUT no coil power out when kicking through or static.

Put back on static start setting put in plugs and Wes gave Trix and go and
she fired right up after a few kicks, rev'd right up for ~.75 sec > silent.

Remembered one Pazion report with leads switched internally so switched trigger leads color code and still no spark.

I hate being in this condition, everything two boys did checks out, but for the new part. What is left to do, Wes and i got trapped in shed in storm so diddled till tears and both conclude it ain't our fault. Hope MAP will replace Pazion and see if really an issue with the one we failed with. Its a really slick easy clean install too. Not really having much fun with Nortons and friends, more testing them and myself and missing riding to all sorts of places and things going on.

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins

Trixie is pissed with you!
Maybe she has been left alone too long and is jelous of Peel, and the gremlins have squatted inside?
Good luck.

(I have a Pazon and they are great. I followed the diagram and the instructions and what a difference.)

graeme

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins

Naw graeme, after a decade plus of failure after failure I don't feel Trixie or Peel is pissed or jealous, I think i moved on top of Indian burial ground and nothing mechanical will work as expected. Or it may be my good karma protecting me from riding. As I said I hate being in this position again, nothing more can be done till a new item replaced again to see if my fault or its. The Indian spirits seem to like me keeping the grass mowed, so I was allowed to rebuild a vintage mower, set its magneto gap and rebuil its charger from magnets up after fire damage and get more mileage and adventures in my on yard that last 6-7 yr of cycling.
I am a bit depressed and mildly beat up by the lost effort, money and time.

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins & ends

Weekend no. 4 or 5 ok 6 trying to get an ignition that'd idle back form spunky states.
Today I leaned all I want to know about the Automatic Advance Unit in both ways, good and bad. Pazion brain box is ready to ship for a replacement to test but now I do not want too any more and never did to begin with in Trixie.

Got hitch ordered for sedan and located a trailer for 2011 INOA meet, so no time to waste. Put the eyeball & finger fiddle to both my AAU's to find:
a. one back plate with wimpy tack weld 90' sheet metal posts, 2nd robust by stamp bending the back plate material so about impossible to bend or give.
b. one the posts the weight swing on 50% loose as a goose hole that lays eggs, 2nd firmly square planted.
c. one set of spring posts with worn deeper grooves, 2nd in plate metal bend were not.
d. one spring set slightly longer slighter weaker than 2nd set so were slack before weight fully returned.
f. one cam center was sticky fit over shaft, 2nd was pretty slick.
g. one set of weight holes wallowed to allow 10' life angle off base flat, 2nd merely 5'.
h. both weigh sets had post wear notching at their most advanced position but one from New Orleans not nearly as much. Wes and I concluded the least notched was the city bike not staying in full advance cruise as long as the other set. Chain saw file took the highlights off the city slicker weight slots.

Made an AAU up with the best items and spent 4 more hr reconverting wiring to points from electronic. Couple more hours diddling gap then AAU then static time, then re set AAU with more centered contact breakers, then re set gap and reset static timing with a test light wink on. Started but still a point spread that could not be optimal corrected with breaker or back plate slots so re-diddled the AAU placement and more of the above to finally get 1st kick starts, if tickled and low cracked throttle. Diddled Amals for nice idle which she now returns to in reasonable time all by her self and offers normal engine drag convenience.
Time light showz both breakers on the 28's mark and steady to read, ahhh.

Put my Macaw on handle bars, started up in shirtless heat, he didn't flinch so eased out over the dried mud beds, pasture lumps and Gravelly sharp turn and climb up to house then let him off, dressed my self for the Red Sausage surprises and lit out with Wesley to our village 20 miles away...

Kings River crossing was about 6 ft under fast water a month ago.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2853780 ... 1179IcUspO


We split at Kingston but I carried on to show another cool old cycle fart then turned tail as factory headlight don't stop spotlighted deer in their tracks nor reveal much on low but these convey my current mood on future with a fine fettered pleasantly smooth spunky senior factory Combat Commando...

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2049551 ... 1179jrKDjv


http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2918121 ... 1179mXOAGl


http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2903770 ... 1179oxeyaU


http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2037096 ... 1179IoKcSj

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins

Glad you have Trixie back running again and you're going to INOA. Enjoy your efforts. What' a macaw? A bird?

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins

Thanks, it sure raised Wes and my mood too. A MaCaw is a 3 yr old emotionally with expressive feathers, claws at bottom, ice pick and chisel at top and an air horn voice that hurts for attention. For some relief worrying on Trixie I've contemplated what equipment would make flight on the road safer for us both. There is a few pix of Justice on Ms Peel and one enjoying showing off a leaf cap earlier in this post, so helmet and goggles are within his ability to tolerate and appreciate.

Another so so good finding is the clear wheel spray is definitely preserving the nice finish of alloy parts exposed to the raw elements here. Last pm put on ~50 miles, plus the 30ish prior to Pazion mystery. This am hope to put on another 50 at least but maybe a couple hundred wondering about hunting for adventure and neat photo back grounds. Its murderous hot so missed out on spring's mild conditions with deadly tornadoes paths all over the area. There are No traffic lights in my county and the one next to it with the best deadly twisters any way you turn.

Re: Trixie Combat 4th recovery begins & ends 9 month gestest

Had me almost a years worth of farting around on Trixie till she smokes and blew oil out head and exhaust too much. I suspect the rush to repair a broken axle before 1000 mile Texas, I skipped one re-torque, but Wes said Trixie wasn't a smoker to notice then. Anywho spent most the day farting around trying to diagnosis where the leaks were before disassembly.

Here's URL of turmoil over gasket quality that fits in here.
posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=12565


Wes made up a spark plug with Shrader valve in it which we tired while stone cold. Note another JBW job joy.


Got air sounds on LH @ TDC that came out the intake rocker box! That ain't one of the possibles listed in leak down tests, only carb, exhaust, crankcase and head gasket. Then the piston moved off center a bit to take up slack of rear brake and breaker bar though spokes to suddenly blow oil out the open tank! This implies push rod tunnel or piston ring path. Tried RH side to barely hear any air escape, may some out exhaust.


Then warmed Trixie up before attempting a real leak down test, which confused us even more. Impossible for me to convert the readings on the old school style tester to make sense of the percentage leak chart. At TDC air leaked into the crankcase out the oil tank vent pipe, just off TDC it suddenly sealed better to move gauges to read with some air sound out exhaust. Instruction say subtract RH gauge from LH, then find on chart per amount PSI feed into tester ie: 75, 90, 100. RH meter = 54, LH 58= 4. ugh. Judging by video of the newer fancy dual guage with one labled in %, both jugs leak like 80%. Impossible confusing only half fun waste of time.



Tear down re-do version 4.4 begins. Not a complete rebuild of damaged engine but broken axle, loose crank end nut, new clock glass, new chain and two shot to shit peashooters and a foot peg, ok two, plus a mirror and 2 anodized Amal slides and pair of tires, begins to add up points. Enjoy the great weather here.

Prior was leaving clouds that filled the fields with smoke and haze, sheeze.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sD6IICB33g&feature=youtu.be[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB2tRMuE4f4&feature=youtu.be[/video]

The short farts at far side of field was me kicking the rear out in little steps as grass still moist at bottom so best not lean to turn with forks. Straight ahead no problmeo to spin rear. Dry grass stop w/o a slip.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5yUh3-rSg&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I got head smoker off, dang push rods are a pain with factory rockers. Bores look ok, will measure gaps later. I could see leak out the LH side seam and seems I see evidence of gas path into the dang push rod tunnels too. Chambers are both black but RH one is pretty dry and shows signs of good squish function w/o any carbon build up on the lip. LH side is distinctly oily and collected a coke crust in arc along the gasket side leak. Interesting how much perfectly clean area RH crown has. Mr. Singh's Groovers say that exactly what they look for in good groove function enough turbulance for total clean burn volume. Some evidence of where the intake blast swirls off the medial chamber surface too.

See if you can see the cleaner copper area that seems to reveal the combustion paths out.

Hobot,
Hi, I'm mew around here but not to Norton's or other British iron. I'm not a motorcycle mechanic by trade but have had my share of total rebuilds some good some not so good. But your particular problem looks very familiar. Just last summer I did a top end on a 74 850 the bores were about 2 thou. over sized so I risked it and just put new JCC pistons and rings in and the head got new guides and valves. After reassembly It started right up and shortly after started smoking badly out of both sides. Right away I thought those cheap rings that everyone warns people not to use were the problem. So I got a set of Hastings and got it running again but no change! So as I was taking off the Amal manifolds the left side valve was closed and there was oil puddling up around the valve face and seat so off with the head. I took it to Randy Baxter of Baxter Cycle and he said it was leaking from between the guide and the head he also said it was a very common and pesky problem with Norton heads. But he knew exactly how to get it fixed. Now it's great, now I'm not saying that it's your problem but it does look a lot like it to me as both of your pistons have the same burnt oil all over them and all. I think your leak down problem with air coming out the rocker box hole was air leaking from the pushrod hole to the piston bore from the head gasket not sealing good and if that is the side that's smoking and leaking it could be the head gasket or warped head surface. it also didn't look like you used Copper Coat or aluminum paint or anything to seal it up good. I've always annealed them and coated it with either of those two things and it always worked good just not to thick as it will make a mess.
Well good luck with it!
Nortarly

Ugh, I am pensive its got some ring and bore size issues, as well as valve guide or seal issues on top of copper gasket giving on the job. I know Randy, spent good money with him and attended his essentially town wide cycler's party and rally and Triumph sales crew and rides. Will measure bores soon to decide on rings, then put on new 'flamering' and see if sealed up, if not and needs head work, I may not ride again till summer while catching up on other stuff. Head was re-newed by expert before put on like 7000 miles ago.

hobot said:

Ugh, I am pensive its got some ring and bore size issues, as well as valve guide or seal issues on top of copper gasket giving on the job. I know Randy, spent good money with him and attended his essentially town wide cycler's party and rally and Triumph sales crew and rides. Will measure bores soon to decide on rings, then put on new 'flamering' and see if sealed up, if not and needs head work, I may not ride again till summer while catching up on other stuff. Head was re-newed by expert before put on like 7000 miles ago.

Click to expand...

Hobot,
I see your from Ark. somewhere, it's real beautiful country down there I use to travel there to work for a company that I don't work for anymore but back then I use to go to various towns around Hot springs. Baxters is about 120 miles south of me and seem to go there quite often and their all British Rally is always a good time.
Sounds like your head has been working fine so most likely your right along with Wes thinking it's a bore/ring problem. I've never had a copper head gasket leak so bad as to suck air and oil out of the pushrod tunnels though. I've had the oil stains and seeps and weeping around the pushrod tunnel and head as that is quite common. The flame ring gasket is suppose to be better but I've had nothing but trouble with them I've had them on 4 different bikes over the years and they always gave out when I didn't want them to. You know, never around home! So copper may seep or weep but have never left me or been a problem for me.
Nortarly

Hehe, Hot Springs is like low lander ho hum territory compared to what's up in the N.W corner of Akransas Ozarks. Its a world famous riding meca. So beautiful in so many ways its actually a hazard that kills people taking attention off the path too long. I'm draggging my tail on Trixie not wanting to face the measuring and deciding and ordering and fitting and trial error head may still be an issue after ran awhile to find out. Don't help my mood you also think rings too. I'd had the good flamering get blow by, so went with copper and it held long enough to see its possible. All the Hylomar got dissolved and blown out so that didn't work out.
I found some real Mercurized cotton thread on a wooden spool in my 93 yr old aunt's sewing kit. She says Great Depression lasted a decade and she had to darn socks as no one could afford new ones. I'll lay thread in with copper coat on non glue type current flame ring.

I'll mark around where I can evidence of copper letting gas/oil escape in several areas.

hobot said:

Hehe, Hot Springs is like low lander ho hum territory compared to what's up in the N.W corner of Akransas Ozarks. Its a world famous riding meca. So beautiful in so many ways its actually a hazard that kills people taking attention off the path too long. I'm draggging my tail on Trixie not wanting to face the measuring and deciding and ordering and fitting and trial error head may still be an issue after ran awhile to find out. Don't help my mood you also think rings too. I'd had the good flamering get blow by, so went with copper and it held long enough to see its possible. All the Hylomar got dissolved and blown out so that didn't work out.
I found some real Mercurized cotton thread on a wooden spool in my 93 yr old aunt's sewing kit. She says Great Depression lasted a decade and she had to darn socks as no one could afford new ones. I'll lay thread in with copper coat on non glue type current flame ring.

I'll mark around where I can evidence of copper letting gas/oil escape in several areas.

Click to expand...

What you say may seal it but isn't the flame ring style meant to go on with both surfaces well cleaned without anything but the gasket? I've heard some talk of a slight skim of hi temp RTV around the pushrod tunnels alone. I know I've done the RTV around the pushrod tunnels after painting with aluminum spray paint and that worked well although copper coat works well too but stays tacky so RTV won't be good that way.
So wouldn't your thread idea work with the copper gasket with copper coat? Also were you thinking about threading both sides of gasket?
So N.W. corner of Ark. Oh yes that is some great country I've driven through there a few times and always thought every time while driving that how nice and fun it would be to have my bike down there but never made it down through there with it!

1. I do not believe any past solid steel ring tough composite base flamering with sepecial sealant for iron on one side and Al on the other are made anymore so only flamering currently sold looks to be just a bit more robust steel sheet crimped on heavy paper than the copper foil on cereal box paper.

2. I no longer use RTV but on electricals but will attempt to tack down tread on both sides of gasket with copper coat.

3. I can't deal with Trixie till I get mower going again which was running fine till shut off after dark last pm. Not in good mechanical mood and don't yet know what all will seal Trixie, but more turmoil 2-4x's escalating attempts. Came in for a tool, back out before storms strike on opened carb nothing was found wrong with.

Ok the plot thickened and Wes was right about the bore being a bit over .040" so ring gap too wide and not pressing ring to bore to seal well, therefore blow by creating the rest of the oil seal smoking issues. He described his past decades idenical finding with over worn bore and ring gaps. Normal top ring gap is 0.010 to 0.012" but Wes found *0.025"* up and down the bore. We did find some bore scoring visually that can barely be felt by fingerprint or finger nail strokes. Pistons sides look like new yet. So do I get a .060 over ring or a Total Seal set a bit over size or just .040" over size?

One funny suspense moment was as we lifted barrel a nut and washers still on cylinder base fell off for tinkle sound as same time i saw wet sump oil level splash but also the crank/rods move as pistons came free. Like surgeons we counted parts, even found an extra mystery split washer but relieved no Easter Egg hunting in the case sump. Trixie was pasture ridden last Sunday, this Sunday most her oil was all in her bottom. Carbonized black abrasive fluid to be rid of by taking out some brush that's an eye sore. A night time task.

Rebuild version 4.4 essentially completed today. After weeks of trying to determine why the out of the box ring set had twice too big of gaps, finally determined that bores-piston fits are fine but 2 different and wrong size top rings included with the new 40 over piston box on last year's 4.0th rebuild. My fault not to have mic'd to Nth degree every new item that arrives even form respected vendor. My fault too I didn't immediately tear down to crank shaft a fine runner I picked up in New Orleans like 6 year ago. A simple easy complete soup to nuts tear down and build back up is cheaper more pleasant deal than tearing down after a blow up, just sight seeing, so also my total fault because I took up a cycle hobby that involves road time.

Factoids, old wrong sent ring gaps were .025+". New Bores 2.912", .003" short of 2.915 OD of full 40 over. Piston to wall clearance by calc and measure give ~.004", acceptable tight if not over heating hi throttle operation. New no name 40 over rings give .010" top and .012" 2nd, about spot on w/o any attention.

After all nipped up Trixie fired 1st kick w/o starting, then L tickler began its brand new sticking dripping act, ugh. Got it slowed to a dribble from outside finger flicking. Then able to kick off in moccasins w/o a hint of smoke nor any over 3 other starts and short warm up/cool downs in yard. Trixie now has a nice crisp Ripping/Crackling sound to throttle blips. Plan was to ride off today with Wes but ended up spoiling another ride day for him - because we found the air box boots had decayed in a year for split personality that lets Grit in.
I know of a new ATV top end rebuild, ruined by 1/2 mile out and back little test w/o an air filter on THE Gravel, so must wait on new air boots, again.

Tomorrow Sunday is still nice spring day so will tape up remains of air boots, tippy toe over the rough stuff to pavement, where one could rip off the air boots for weeks w/o much worry.

'Puter issues prevent photo's of out grilling the head and marshmallow toasting the copper gasket on a coat hanger beer party last night.

hobot said:

Rebuild version 4.4 essentially completed today. After weeks of trying to determine why the out of the box ring set had twice too big of gaps, finally determined that bores-piston fits are fine but 2 different and wrong size top rings included with the new 40 over piston box on last year's 4.0th rebuild. My fault not to have mic'd to Nth degree every new item that arrives even form respected vendor. My fault too I didn't immediately tear down to crank shaft a fine runner I picked up in New Orleans like 6 year ago. A simple easy complete soup to nuts tear down and build back up is cheaper more pleasant deal than tearing down after a blow up, just sight seeing, so also my total fault because I took up a cycle hobby that involves road time.

Factoids, old wrong sent ring gaps were .025+". New Bores 2.912", .003" short of 2.915 OD of full 40 over. Piston to wall clearance by calc and measure give ~.004", acceptable tight if not over heating hi throttle operation. New no name 40 over rings give .010" top and .012" 2nd, about spot on w/o any attention.

After all nipped up Trixie fired 1st kick w/o starting, then L tickler began its brand new sticking dripping act, ugh. Got it slowed to a dribble from outside finger flicking. Then able to kick off in moccasins w/o a hint of smoke nor any over 3 other starts and short warm up/cool downs in yard. Trixie now has a nice crisp Ripping/Crackling sound to throttle blips. Plan was to ride off today with Wes but ended up spoiling another ride day for him - because we found the air box boots had decayed in a year for split personality that lets Grit in.
I know of a new ATV top end rebuild, ruined by 1/2 mile out and back little test w/o an air filter on THE Gravel, so must wait on new air boots, again.

Tomorrow Sunday is still nice spring day so will tape up remains of air boots, tippy toe over the rough stuff to pavement, where one could rip off the air boots for weeks w/o much worry.

'Puter issues prevent photo's of out grilling the head and marshmallow toasting the copper gasket on a coat hanger beer party last night.

Click to expand...

You got off easy. Piston ring end gap MUST BE CHECKED EVERY TIME. Had they been too tight, rather than loose, the cylinder would have been toast as well the piston. Yesteryear they were frequently hand fit to acheive the proper gap. Modern production techniques make them so consistant, that if the bore is correctly sized, the gap falls right in where it belongs. It has made people a bit lazy and when a screwup occurs, the results could be catastrophic. Glad you just had a smoker.

Yes, live and un-learn, I got caught out after Peel and 2 prior Trixie re-rings and my big twin mower and outboard twin and 4 jug dozer and hot rod V8, all worked perfectly right out the box, by ordering off the shelf ring sets for the over bore done, Just Like It Did This Time in Trixie. So if I sleep with a sheep once am I forever more a lamb lover reputation. I did measure the rod shells to crank journal clearances and correct them before installs on Peel and Trixie. Wes and I high five'd today's seeming success but I'm no new fool to Norton now nor is Wes so we both know its way too soon to judge success as took most a year for gap blow by to cause symptoms. I am not a mechanic by trade or desire just pure necessity.

Wes and I spent Friday night from 7pm to 1 am getting components prepped and pistons in to set barrel, then 1 pm to 6 pm today to get head and accessories on to start. You might of seen my Norton specific tool bag, well I have 2 cut down allen wrenches of the manifold screws and special place for them but could not find em so carbs ain't really nailed down yet for Commando engine level vibes. We were both about swooning with fatigue.

OH yeah we lost over an hour farting with the last of VICTORY headers serious fault in production a decade ago. RH header was about banging on the points cover so ended up forcing a crimp bend to clear cases and aim into muffler. On Trixies 1st rebuild it took all day to about ruin new brooze ring bolt on RH header because the head in was like 1/16" Too Big OD. Damn heavy pipes Wes said and damn hard to find method to bend them and not nearly enough room mounted on bike to allow the excess motion not to just spring right back. Wes Cdo sports a mis-matched cheap set from a rally sale that clears everything and looks good. Likely the cam seal was cooked but won't show up a flood till this summer.

In old jeans and split open moccasins and naked above waist I didn't fish tail up drive way much but the Ripping Bark sure was tempting.