Too balloon or not to balloon

So, its too @#$%ing hot here in the Namib desert to acutally do any work so I'm hunkered in my airconditioned office looking at bikes on the net. I notice that lots of customizers prefer to use balloon tyres. is this only for cosmetic reasons or do they also improve performance. Sorry if this is a stoooooopid question, I dont get out much.

By "balloon tires" I assume you mean tires with inner tubes as opposed to tubeless tires. If so, one-piece wheels can usually run tubeless tires; spoke wheels need tubes due to the spoke holes. Seems like I have heard of some type of spoked wheel that can run tubeless tires but I might be mis-remembering or imagining it. In any case, it's all a function of whether the wheel itself is air-tight.

mike996 said:

By "balloon tires" I assume you mean tires with inner tubes as opposed to tubeless tires. If so, one-piece wheels can usually run tubeless tires; spoke wheels need tubes due to the spoke holes. Seems like I have heard of some type of spoked wheel that can run tubeless tires but I might be mis-remembering or imagining it. In any case, it's all a function of whether the wheel itself is air-tight.

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BMW makes a spoked rim that can run tubeless tires, but the spokes run under the bead of the tire, rather than the rim center.

mike996 said:

By "balloon tires" I assume you mean tires with inner tubes as opposed to tubeless tires. If so, one-piece wheels can usually run tubeless tires; spoke wheels need tubes due to the spoke holes. Seems like I have heard of some type of spoked wheel that can run tubeless tires but I might be mis-remembering or imagining it. In any case, it's all a function of whether the wheel itself is air-tight.

Click to expand...

I think he might mean wider tires rather than balloon tires per se. I think the reason most people go with wider tires is mainly cosmetic... as far as traction, I don't think they're gaining much because with the oval design of a motorcycle tire the same amount of rubber is going to contact the road in a narrow tire as a wider one.

I call the 17-16" rim size tires over 140 mm wide - 'Balloon' tires as modern sports bikes wear. The rim size changes the steering geometry of Commandos and may make them un-stable if pressing limits in turns as is so easy to do on un-tammed isolastics. Up till recently even the big BMW's with sealed rims were fitted with 120 rear size and many still are that have aspirations to leave pavement now and then. The fatter the tire the more effort to cruise around, not much mind you but after some time on the road - fat tires are annoying extra work to me with sense of throttle lag compared to 19-18" fairly skinny tires. Traction is not really the advantage of fat tires, only the compound and air pressure affect that as tire patch size is essentially the same d/t weight/air pressure similar support. Fatter tires main advantage is spreading tire melting heat power out more, so can get better mileage if you lean a lot to spread wear out from the ~1.5" wide center patch all cycle tires bear on while upright or leaned. I can attest that the fatter the tire the more dicey unpredictable it gets on edges and the easier it is to get on those unpredicable limits. Now for hill climbs and sand dunes and drag strips a 16-17" fat paddle or knobbie or flat slick is way better than skinny street tires on rear but these conditions are more bee line blasts than easier road turn handlers. Spoked rims can be sealed a number of ways to get tubeless advantage and the way I'm going with Ms Peel > sports bike and deer hunter special, on or off pavement. But then again I encourage out of the ordinary experiments, so as its not me, I say try it and see then get back to us.

I should have been more lucid in my query, I find bikes that are sporting the kind of tire profile as illustrated on this W650 to be very appealing. I am wondering given the deep knowledge base on this site if there is a compelling reason not to use them? If not who makes a good one?
All the best,

Chris

namibchris said:

...I find bikes that are sporting the kind of tire profile as illustrated on this W650 to be very appealing...

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Mind if I ask why Chris? They don't look like the best profile for going 'round corners.

I have to agree with Dave in the post above, that the tires as posted in the picture are probably not the best choise for your Commando.
Over the years I have tried several different tires, and found the Avon Roadriders the best choise when it comes to roadholding.
100/90 x19 for the rear, and 90/90x19 for the front. (choise of suitable rear tires in 19 inch is limited)
Not sure about the availability of these tires in your part of the world however..

+ 1 on the Avons. I have gone thru a few sets of tires on my 75 Commando, the Avons handle well and get decent mileage wear.
Some BMW models do, ( or did) run spoke rims tubeless.

https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl ... cc1QF7pOjc

I change all mo own tires and the wider tiers can be a pain, I usually warm them up with a heat gun to make them easier to mount. Haven't burned my shop down yer, but the day is young!

MF

I'm actualy thinking about the big balloon tires for one of my other machines rather then the commando.

FYI there are 5 turns in all of Namibia, so cornering is not much of a concern....

Thanks

If not concerned with max lean and sharpness angle with least effort then the bigger tires can take rougher surfaces better at lower inflation and wear longer and look meaner muscular. It takes more to spin the bigger meats so keep gearing on low side to retain some nicer throttle response if that's a feature you like in Commandos. Fender limits front size and chain the rear size. TC of dragster fame runs 16x500 on his 850 Interstate used for Interstate travel but he is a bee line man not a bike tossing racer.

Those Supermoto Guys run fat tires and they have no problems whatsoever turning.

OH yes supermotards are limited by their fatso tires so they have to slide by brake or over powering rear to sharpen the turns or just slide wide on greasey disappearing fat tire patch on edges. If you ain't ridden like a supermotard or elite racer then may not be able to relate to the tire dimensions changing patch shape. Below some insane rates its a total non issue but for steering effort and tire wear. The famous Norton racers tell me they often get passed in turns by the 125's on skinny tires so corner adhesion ain't a fat tire benefit only the heating capacity and upright drag sprints. Just because hi horse power bikes are faster and also wear fat tires, don't mean that's the best handling combo, same as the Japaness pumping their bikes up and down before race, because that's what the saw the monocoupe team doing to pump fuel in pits before out handling them on track. Moderns are sprinter specialists not turning wonders and if ya pay close attention the fastest riders are jumping off surface in slight hi sides to avoid the loss of fat tire grip at apexes. Best I have explored so far is that 120-130 size seems to be the breaking point of ballerina shoes vs work boots handling. Again this is not noticed just riding up to regular racer speeds-loads but press a bit more and all will be too clear once head recovers the impact of hitting the ground. I do find 90-100 fronts limit braking grip so am going back to 110 on my Cdo fronts from now on. 110 at both ends seems best compromise to me but 120-130 rear if power enough to spin too easy on smaller tire. Bigger patch does make a good difference off road but how many run their Cdo in MX un-paved surfaces at much speed-looseness?

hobot, I believe that you would be surprised as to what bikes I have ridden and where I have ridden them.


I think that the "balloon tire" thing is for looks.
Exile Cycle was putting a 16" on the front of their FatBoy customs for a while,
I don't know if they are still doing it or not.

OK Mark I've not nearly the mc history of likes of you so take you at your word: that we've both ridden wild enough to know tire width has diminishing returns per increased lean loads. After being freaked out on my 1st ordinary Combat then getting SV650 and then Code's school bikes on soft balloon tires I thought I was so done with Cdo's to have any fast fun on and still do > unless linked and forked like Peel, to now see supermotards as underpowered corner cripples with diminishing returns on heated fatso tires. Supermotards ride out here and usually only get to 80 mph they tell me, while we are waiting for their friends on GRSX and R6's and R1's or Ducki Monsters to arrive so I can quizz them about their sense of pecking order beyond bee line sprints. So dirts bikes on street tires are better handlers than sports bikes on same tires, just not enough better to impress me no more. I've got some experimenting to do once next Peel running - on front and rear widths and compound and radial vs bias at either end for Goldie Locks meal time eating the elites > so shot in the feet by their over size meats.

Coker tire sell vintage bicycle like balloon tires with ancient tread designs and even white walls to look and preform old school correct.
http://newstalgiawheel.com/classic_tire ... PAodlw8AVg

The vintage tyres that always make me smile are the Firestones with the legend 'NON SKID' - literally - as the tread pattern repeated across them..

I like the look and placed 110's on mine. I didnt want to overdo it and the performance is pretty good! Also no rubbing and I have both fender stays on the front....