Timing cover for cutaway tool

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concours

concours

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I've searched and read, it appears I have an early Commando timing cover, damaged and weld repaired. My question is, is this dimensionally the same as (save for the tach drive area which would be removed) the cover on the later (1974) engine? Thus suitable as a donor for a cutaway timing chain adjustment tool?
Timing cover for cutaway tool


Timing cover for cutaway tool
 
Just looking now at my intermediate Shaft Support tool diagram . Should work out fine seeing as you will have to hacksaw away that camshaft area anyways. Fine tooth blade for non ferrous metal. Used to support idler spindle on removing/install of cam nut and adjusting of camchain. :)
 
Yep mine is also an early plain cover w/o a logo cast in. Its sliced from top center hole to lower hole just ahead of the lower bulge.

Timing cover for cutaway tool


Timing cover for cutaway tool
 
Thanks! It followed me home from a swap meet Sunday, for the price of a beer. I'll give it the window treatment and file it away for use next time I'm in the timing chest.
 
Time Warp said:
I have a Norvil spindle support tool but now notice Andover Norton have one that is priced very competitively,less that half of the Norvil item. (iirc)

http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/SI%20Se ... 0Tools.htm

Timing cover for cutaway tool
Click to expand...

This tool with three screw holes and NO dowel pin locating ability strikes me as poorly designed. That shaft location could be off location by as much as .040" (my personal SWAG!!), resulting in a large error in chain tension setting. Also, when reefing on the cam nut, the screws, sitting atop plastic spacers are likely to deflect easily, allowing the spindle to possibly crack the crankcase boss. A properly designed tool would have straddled the dowel pins. Just my .02
 
While evaluating the sufficiency of various back up devices do keep in mind the majority of cam nut diddles over the decades have done it w/o back ups w/o a particularly noticed rash of broken parts. So in actual practice about any back up is just extra icing insurance rather than a vital show stopper absolute like rod nuts.
 
hobot said:
While evaluating the sufficiency of various back up devices do keep in mind the majority of cam nut diddles over the decades have done it w/o back ups w/o a particularly noticed rash of broken parts. So in actual practice about any back up is just extra icing insurance rather than a vital show stopper absolute like rod nuts.
Click to expand...

I'll give ya that, better than nothing, but three quawtah twunney's 3/4" out in clearance holes flexin is rather course positioning. :mrgreen:
 
I bought the AN tool, it is quite inexpensive.....less than the price of a used cover if you don't have one laying in your parts bin....

But like Hobot I have done enough work without one not to feel it is as critical to use one as some do.

When located, which it is right now....the hole for the spindle has quite a bit of clearance, I suspect that you will not see the spindle forced hard against the tool unless you are being really brutal...which, if like me you have a chilled iron cam, would be rather foolish!

If you shift the tool enough to make the nylon washers and screws a problem, I suggest you should consider working on tractors and not Nortons :roll:

If your spindle comes loose in the cases it could be the result of long usage and real abuse, rather than the odd timing chain change!

It is just a locator to make you feel better, and if it saves a few timing covers being gouged out, its a good idea and worth the money.

Could you make a better one, sure, what could you sell it for and make a profit?
 
Early mag type covers and later none mag covers are NOT the same.

Early mag engines have two chains so the cast boss for the intermediate spindle is shorter than later cam chain only engine.

I learned this the hard way by buying an old early cover for my later engine. The boss only just reaches the spindle with about 1/32" of spindle in boss so if I where to put any real force on cam nut I think it is possible it may move spindle as not enough support on it.

I have a PW3 so only need 15ft/pd on nut but am still planning on getting the AN tool an putting this cover on Ebay. Anyone in UK need the early cover ?????
 
toppy said:
Early mag type covers and later none mag covers are NOT the same.

Early mag engines have two chains so the cast boss for the intermediate spindle is shorter than later cam chain only engine.

I learned this the hard way by buying an old early cover for my later engine. The boss only just reaches the spindle with about 1/32" of spindle in boss so if I where to put any real force on cam nut I think it is possible it may move spindle as not enough support on it.

I have a PW3 so only need 15ft/pd on nut but am still planning on getting the AN tool an putting this cover on Ebay. Anyone in UK need the early cover ?????
Click to expand...

I also have a PW3....I heard 20lb/ft so wondered where you got the 15 from, I suspect that is enough....
 
Steve A the 15lb figure was in the instructions an Mick Hemmings also told me himself. I have also heard it from many others also thread lock should be used so there is no real need to used lots of forc on nut to hold it which may then risk damage to the chilled iron cam.
 
I confess my ignorance of what this discussion is about. Why does the cam nut have to be so tight, and why is the chain adjustment so critical ? If you are concerned about the cam timing shifting, try broaching two more keyways into the sprocket at random, then start moving the timing a few degrees at a time in both directions and note the effect on performance on the road. ( Or buy a vernier adjustable timing sprocket). I've often been surprised that doing this is never discussed on this forum. It seems that many guys buy the hot cam and simply accept that the keyway is in the optimum position to suit their exhaust system and inlet length. Do you believe that when you buy a standard commando, that the manufacturer has not detuned it slightly for road use ? What was the combat 750 ?
 
toppy said:
Early mag type covers and later none mag covers are NOT the same.

Early mag engines have two chains so the cast boss for the intermediate spindle is shorter than later cam chain only engine.

I learned this the hard way by buying an old early cover for my later engine. The boss only just reaches the spindle with about 1/32" of spindle in boss so if I where to put any real force on cam nut I think it is possible it may move spindle as not enough support on it.

I have a PW3 so only need 15ft/pd on nut but am still planning on getting the AN tool an putting this cover on Ebay. Anyone in UK need the early cover ?????
Click to expand...


Ahhhhhh.... can the spindle be pulled out 3/16" and engage both acceptably?
 
acotrel said:
I confess my ignorance of what this discussion is about.
Click to expand...

All it does is support the spindle and the Norvil one does so well,the fit is snug.
It has nothing to do with cam timing or chain tension,all it does is stop possible deflection of the spindle when the cam nut is tightened or loosened.
The spindle is threaded into the engine case.
 
L.A.B. said:
Time Warp said:
The spindle is threaded into the engine case.
Click to expand...


The intermediate spindle isn't threaded.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that,I removed the iirc from that sentence.
Maybe it was a circlip I saw at the inner part of the case in that location.
If it relies on some form of interference fit then another good reason to use some form of support whatever the version.

I see what Concours means now as far as tension. (If the hole had been flogged out from not being supported)
 
concours said:
toppy said:
Early mag type covers and later none mag covers are NOT the same.

Early mag engines have two chains so the cast boss for the intermediate spindle is shorter than later cam chain only engine.

I learned this the hard way by buying an old early cover for my later engine. The boss only just reaches the spindle with about 1/32" of spindle in boss so if I where to put any real force on cam nut I think it is possible it may move spindle as not enough support on it.

I have a PW3 so only need 15ft/pd on nut but am still planning on getting the AN tool an putting this cover on Ebay. Anyone in UK need the early cover ?????
Click to expand...


Ahhhhhh.... can the spindle be pulled out 3/16" and engage both acceptably?
Click to expand...

The hole point cocours is to keep the spindle tight in the case an not let it turn as there is an oil feed hole in lub the sprocket.
 
Acotrel as for better cam timing the after market performance cam in my engine had 3 keyways so by using one or another and the more usual trick of advancing the idler and retarding the cam you could fine tune the timing. Unfortunately I don't know what make the cam was an tje hardening had failed so it is being changed for a PW3 which I noticed this 50 thou more lift than the old cam.

Chain tension will affect cam timing an problems with poor running can result if its to loose or tight. As later cam chain tensioner have a rubber face for the chain to run on this does were an adjustment my be needed.
 
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