Tickover

Reading the post below about erratic idle has got me thinking.
I have a Boyer & twin Amals. The bike goes fantastic, starts 1st kick. But cannot get a good tickover.
It has been suggested that Boyers are not good for tickovers, so would a ign. system change be good, or carbs resleeved.
Carbs are in pretty good nick.
Winter is coming, time to fiddle.
Please, don't turn this into am Amal slagging off thread, it is boring.

Flo, I have Pazon and 1 Mikuni. When it's warm it idles well and doesn't stall but when it's cold I have to keep the revs up for a minute till it warms up. From what I've read here some can just kick and walk away from cold and the bike idles, or that's the impression I got from reading other posts. Mine won't do that. Graeme

Mine with the original Amals at 13K miles and new Pazon will idle fine if I find the right spot on the throttle (1000 or less). Trouble is I get the droop coming off the closed throttle, so I have to keep the idle high or it tends to die. I tried taking up the droop by adjusting the throttle cable tighter, but that doesn't seem to help. I'm going to do the Lund thing this winter and hope that solves the problem. I suppose I could try the anodized slides, but am not sure the bodies aren't a bit worn too. I wouldn't say mine is erratic, it does the same thing all the time, just problematic. Otherwise I can't complain, it pulls fine unless I leave the choke on and then it sputters with instant WOT, but that's my issue, not the bikes.

Dave
69S

As sexy as it may be, tickover is overrated.

I have the Pazon unit and a set of JS 32s. It will tickover once warmed all the way down to 500 rpm but I will not let it due to the oil starvation factor. 800 to 1000 rpm is just fine. Everything freshened up helps, equal cylinder pressure, float heights, on and on.

I also think the pressed in pilot jets are troublesome. If you rework your amals, consider drilling them out and using the screw in type. Piece of cake to do. You can then fine tune the pilot circuit to suit.

A good tickover is nice if you don't want to roll up to a stop sign and have the blasted thing die. I have trouble at my age starting it without the sidestand down, belay that, I've always had trouble starting it without a stand.

DogT

G'day Flo, If you take up the slack from the throttle cables by slightly turning the Hand piece,
do the engine revs change. If they do change, (usually they will slow a bit, from less air getting past the slide), then the carbies
or slides are worn. At least that's what I found. I must have spent hours playing with the carbies, even buying another second hand set,
and playing with those too. Lack of funds at the time was the only reason I didn't go to Jap carbies.
So I went for the old "one last chance for the Amals" theory, and it worked.
I found someone semi local that could bore the bodies and sleeve the slides,... and problem solved.
The bike starts easy, will idle slowly (about 600) after 30 seconds warm up at 1,000 revs then creep up to 1,200 where it
is set and stay there. After some more confidence biulding I may bring it back to 1,000 revs, but at this stage I like to know
that it won't stop at the lights. I tend to think that a bit faster Idle can help with lots of things, including take off, and the fact
that I am not a real firm believer in the pressed in Idle circuit being exactly right, I think it's a bit lean, or that the # 3.0
cutterway might be a bit much.
Any way, those are my thoughts, but will add that I am considering removeing them now and packing them away in
the cupboard for when I pass the bike on to my Son or Daughter, and replacing with JAP.
AC.
P.S. I too have trouble starting mine with out being on the stand, the Combat has plenty of compression and can
also lock up from time to time, being very imbarrasing.

If the carbs SLIDES dont rattle about , say on the bech , finger cant pull them about more than 5 or 10 at most thou .
there not to bad .Chike mechanisms totally unnessesary .AND a nusance .Toss THAT . . . . . and . .

If youve the black PLASTIC two into one , Cable Junction Box . Mine stood 20 seconds inspection before trashed .
the short plastic inner slide ' cocks ' on any load, So CANT set carbs even , and drags and binds .

CARBS . they did some marvellous magnessium bodied concentrics , for raceing .
they did ecentric mounted CONCENTRIC BORE raceing belmouths . Ones fitted over the mouth give TROUBLE
with the bleed / vent holes in the mouth of the carb pressuriseing . ( when youre at 160 on the banking at Daytona)
MONOBLOCKS would be perfectly suitable there , as the ' G ' forces are STRAIGHT DOWN .
1 3/16 , the Largest , are 30 mmm , so if 30s are fitted , momoblocks are a bolt on , jets interchangeable ,
and have smoother , finer adjustment Idle & Transition .

IF the Concentrics Slides & bodies Fit is loose , or there scoured / tramlined up , the stutter & poping will be worse .
Some people thought this made them sound like a Race Engine . It means the idle has to be high to not get erratic pick up .( called STALLING ) .


theres better things to waste time and money on ,when you can get a 1 3/4 SU or Stroberg of anything ,
or all sorts of cheap stuff that DOES work .Concentrics in Good Servicable Order are No Trouble .
Grit is , itll ruin them . Proper maintanace includes removeing slides and wipeing them and the carb bores
with a lint free cloth . A can of spay lube or silicon wouldnt be a bad idea .

When it was bucketing down , a set of worn gritty concentrics with the choke mecanisms further binding the operation ,
you might go through a picket fence , or stall at the lights . If you were beating the odds .

Mk 2s flowed better , so are a performance and economy update , typically slow in comming about , a pair of 32 dellortos if thrown at you shouldnt be sneared at . or other quality carbs .Use a strong light to inspect , and be realistic . :mrgreen:

I use powdered graphite lubricant on my two into one plastic slides . Works a treat

Phil

As much as I dislike Anals...oops, I mean Amals, the problem is with the Boyer. From one stoplight to another you might have 800rpm or you might have 1200 rpm idle. Pot luck. My Tri-Spark fixed it. Consistent idle every time.

Triggered of the brain cell . Floats / ticklers sticking . A big no no . The 500 with dual rubber mounted 30 Conc's
periodically had a hissey fit . kicked back , dribbled , & went ' WOSH ' . dont panic. dont panic . FIRE . :shock:

Not too sure open bellmouths are to good an idea on these . . .usually saved it for social occasions,probly jealousey . :wink:

GRM 450 said:

Flo, I have Pazon and 1 Mikuni. When it's warm it idles well and doesn't stall but when it's cold I have to keep the revs up for a minute till it warms up. From what I've read here some can just kick and walk away from cold and the bike idles, or that's the impression I got from reading other posts. Mine won't do that. Graeme

Click to expand...

Graeme, What pilot jet, air screw setting and idle when it's warmed up are you going with?

What is the replacement for the 2 into 1 throttle/choke connectors?

if you can just kick it and walk away from it cold IT IS TO RICH. as to yours you can just turn up the idle screw till warm. not hard to find a happy setting for, example try 1 half turn in cold than back it out the half turn when warm.

GRM 450 said:

Flo, I have Pazon and 1 Mikuni. When it's warm it idles well and doesn't stall but when it's cold I have to keep the revs up for a minute till it warms up. From what I've read here some can just kick and walk away from cold and the bike idles, or that's the impression I got from reading other posts. Mine won't do that. Graeme

Click to expand...

I have the Boyer also with brand new Amals and have the same problem with idle.Like someone said when you are at a stop sign you never really know if its going to keep running or not and the revs vary from stop tp to stop.Along with kickback on starting it seems like the Boyer is getting binned in the near future.

powerdoc said:

What is the replacement for the 2 into 1 throttle/choke connectors?

Click to expand...

http://www.clubmanracing.com/controlsandcables.php

GRM 450 said:

Flo, I have Pazon and 1 Mikuni. When it's warm it idles well and doesn't stall but when it's cold I have to keep the revs up for a minute till it warms up. From what I've read here some can just kick and walk away from cold and the bike idles, or that's the impression I got from reading other posts. Mine won't do that. Graeme

Click to expand...

My bike did exactly what you're talking about. I would start it on the choke then need to turn it off almost immediately, then keep the idle up with the twist grip or the idle screw for a minute or two or it would die. My problem was the fuel level was too high and I was trying to compensate with a small pilot. When that was fixed the starting procedure is choke for 15-20 seconds then off. The idle comes down to about normal and stays there.

I think what was going on is the air screw in the pilot circuit does more than just trim the leaness or richness if the mixture. The pilot jet forms a little mixing chamber in the carb so that the fuel comes out the holes in the bottom of the throat of the carb is already atomized. If the pilot jet is submerged by too high a fuel level then there isn't much chance for the air screw to add enough air so there isn't much in the way of atomization. What fuel that comes out the little holes is basically a thin stream. When the engine is warm enough it can probably deal with it. When it's cold, it can't so you need to keep the throttle raised till it warms up. I think the Mikuni 2 into 1 manifold isn't very good, which only makes things worse. That manifold probably does everything that can possibly be done to make a fuel charge fall out of suspension. It's time for me to retire the 2 into 1. It just a matter of choosing the carbs.

Report this postReply with quoteRe: Tickover
by speirmoor » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:38 am

I have the Boyer also with brand new Amals and have the same problem with idle.Like someone said when you are at a stop sign you never really know if its going to keep running or not and the revs vary from stop tp to stop.Along with kickback on starting it seems like the Boyer is getting binned in the near future.
I have found that if the boyer rotor magnet is weak it will make it kick back on starting. The way to test this is by removing rotor & try to hang it off of a spanner, it should stay on trhere, if not it may be weak, Boyers can check & rectify.
HTH Paul.

I have had old amals, new amals, much fiddling with mixture and idle speed, and good days and bad days with tick over. Tick over on a Norton has been a fantasy for me. I am in awe when I see the occasional Norton on here or youtube that just idles beautifully. In all other regards my bike responds, runs, and pulls very hard no matter what. I do not have kick back with the Boyer. My solution was to replace the silly blind hole throttle stop screws with ones that I can reach down and adjust at will with my fingers. I used Rochester two jet carburetor needles with the end flattened off. I do believe there is a maker for more professional ones though. So if Norton is having a bad day, I just tweak her a little bit. My concept of tick over is if the beast does not die at a stop. Having easy adjustment of the slide height can also be used tune out backfire on overrun. If anyone finds the source for the hand adjustable stops, please post it here as I would like to take a gander.

powerdoc said:

What is the replacement for the 2 into 1 throttle/choke connectors?

Click to expand...

There's more. Barnett alloy, bottom of the page.

http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_5430.htm

Ugh but they sound so pleasant down low but its the worse state to engines. I'm a bit trapped in 1000 rpm operation zone creeping around my area for short spells. Boyers are sensitive to voltage drops and voltage drops at slow idle with head light on and holding brake light to boot. As battery goes low they just cough and stall out. Some rare cases Commando's have been known to have more than one issue at a time each causing same symptoms. I've greased Amal slides-bores to verify their air leak effect or not on idle. Could cause em to stick in cold temps of course.