The new kid.

Hey guys! I'll make this short.

I'm Ray, 27, live in Kansas, Smeal operator, etc.

I've been riding (mostly) on the street for about 13 years now. All jap bikes. I've toured from here to Nova Scotia & Cali, twice.

A riding buddy of mine asked me last year if I wanted to go watch a flat track race. Sure I says!

I was instantly hooked on the crazy sideways action & began searching for a bike to build & race. When I was there, I saw this beautiful machine...



I don't know if KK #38 is on this board, but he's one cool dude!

I knew at that point I needed a Norton! Hearing that inline twin beat around the corners was pure ear ecstasy! I of course had seen a few brit bikes before this, but there's just something about the Norton Commando. I've saw some Trumpets & Beezas & they never really did anything for me. My dad (who's a Harley guy at heart) thinks I'm nuts everytime I mention a Norton but I'm in love!

I went on to build my own race bike, a '74 Honda 350 sideport 'Buttons' & finished forth in my class my rookie year despite numerous troubles.



That's the famed Stockton Ks half miler. I met Dave Aldana & Chris Carr. It was an unforgettable experience, bangin' bars with fellow racers at nearly top speed. She's getting torn own soon to upgrade some parts (+1mm piston, giant Mikuni carb, Elsinor rear hub laced to a late model 19WM3 Yamaha dirty wheel for a better tire, nice tank & glass, etc) for next season.

This summer I bought my first superbike. Meet 'Fiona', a 2006 ZX10R.



Thing's got enough power to put you in orbit!

Yeah, I'm one of those leather clad suicidal punks on the razor's edge of lunacy. I do however restrain myself to mostly legal speeds if anyone is around. She's in the spare room right now getting street fightered since I can't stand plastics & clip ons. BST carbon fiber wheels, a custom Boz Bros GILD based pipe & one off Z riser bars are things I'm tinkering with.

Anyways, just wanted to introduce myself since I'll be lurking here. I'm hoping to find a Norton nearby someday to build up. I have a mountain (literally like three or four pickup loads) of vintage & period hotrod KZ650, GPz750, Z1 & KZ1000 parts / bikes I'm hoping to unload to finance the Norton.

Ya'll have a good one!

Outlaw.

Hey Ho Ray. Your Norton reminds me of my first ride at age 20 in Fla.
Love to see such wasteful pastimes as your hobby. I'm in NW Arkansas and very curious where you find flat tract races. Hope that ole Norton can keep up with you. Siding all stable like that is quite a thrill I'd like to try on a dirt track too but wonder if ya practiced riding out flats on that Z1 yet for real test of racer recovery skill? Try it on half air to see what I mean and never forget the sense of it.

Ignore you dad we all know Harley riders actually like the Norton barks way more than the inline screams.

What better tire fit do you have in mind?

hobot said:

Love to see such wasteful pastimes as your hobby.

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Fuck off.

Outlaw said:

hobot said:

Love to see such wasteful pastimes as your hobby.

Click to expand...

Fuck off.

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I see you're not use to hobot's curious use of the English language. Once you get a hang of it (trust me, you'll never really understand it fully) some of the odder phrasing will (sadly) make sense.

In this case "wasteful pastimes" might actually be a compliment.

A bit ' Outraw ' ?

swooshdave said:

Outlaw said:

hobot said:

Love to see such wasteful pastimes as your hobby.

Click to expand...

Fuck off.

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...... Once you get a hang of it (trust me, you'll never really understand it fully) some of the odder phrasing will (sadly) make sense........

.

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not so much! :shock:

Outlaw said:

hobot said:

Love to see such wasteful pastimes as your hobby.

Click to expand...

Fuck off.

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I'm pretty certain that was meant as a compliment Outlaw
You should find all the info you need, and quite possibly all the parts or a complete bike to build that flat tracker you want on this site.
Welcome to the forum

Webby

That was a compliment for sure, Hobot likes ANYBODY that rides ANYTHING at near (or just over) "the limit".

Vince

swooshdave said:

Outlaw said:

hobot said:

Love to see such wasteful pastimes as your hobby.

Click to expand...

Fuck off.

Click to expand...

I see you're not use to hobot's curious use of the English language. Once you get a hang of it (trust me, you'll never really understand it fully) some of the odder phrasing will (sadly) make sense.

In this case "wasteful pastimes" might actually be a compliment.

Click to expand...

Guess I was quick on the trigger there eh? I took it as a slap in the face to which I'm quick & speak my mind. Take my apology hobot, as I'm not here to step on toes or make enemies.

I'll address your post as best as I can understand it since there's other things in it that confuse me a little?

First, the Norton is not mine. It's a fellow racer's I've since met & become friends with. I'm not sure what you mean by 'wasteful passtimes' but since there's a few guys saying it's a communication breakdown & compliment, thank you.

I'm decently familiar with NW Arkansas (lived around the Fort for a few years & partied a lot up in Fayettenam. Great riding in the Ozarks nearby!) & to my knowledge, there are few, if any flat track races in your area. The series I race in, is called the GPFTS (Great Plains Flat Track Series) if you google that, you'll find a small site quickly with our schedule, standings & a forum to BS in. Most the races are In Wichita at 81 speedway (a high banked 3/8ths, my favorite track) & Jeeps motorcycle club (a D shaped 1/4 miler with a REALLY tight number four that I struggle with) then I've also raced in Clay Center, Colby, Norton (of all places, ha!) Stockton & I did the three day Nebraska turkey chase in Lincoln. We have racers that regularly attend, coming as far as Tulsa (the guy with the Norton, actually) & western Iowa even!

The Norton races with the big twins (XR750 Harley's & the bored out Yamaha XS's) & I'm in the 'vintage 400' class. If we were ever to be put on the track at the same time, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd get lapped by the time the flag dropped! Those guys are FAST & their bikes make triple the power my little Honda makes.

My Z1 isn't running (needs me to put the clutch in) It's in an early KZthou frame that was made into a drag bike that I pretty much bought for the engine & carbs (VM29 smoothbores) but even if it was, I sure wouldn't be practicing sliding a tank of a bike like that around on half flat tires! When it comes to flats, I've had my fair share of 'butt pucker' moments...

Worst one was coming back from Cali the last time on my ZX10R, I picked up a nail. Pulling into a small town about an hour east of Albuquerque I could tell something was very wrong, as the bike steered like a bus. My lovely passenger had one of them new smart phones & quickly found a place in Albuquerque that would patch the tire, we just had to get the bike to them... I plugged the tire, pushed Fiona to a nearby truck stop to grab some air & we headed back west on I-40. Of course, it started raining on us... By the time we reached Albuquerque, I could feel the tire was down again but we were only a few miles away. The rain was lightening up but rush hour was upon us. Soaked to the bone & shaking, on a flat, with another life in my hands through major city traffic on a 160+ hp bike is not a fun place to be, lemme tell ya.

We finally found this place.



& I yanked out Fiona's rear wheel.



Can't remember the guy's name, but he was super cool! The patch leaked just a bit the first time so he did it again! Lots of people would scoff at patching a MC tire, but I was a tire guy for over a year & his work was top notch. His wife offered to cook us dinner & put us up for the night. As thankful as we were, we had to press on due to time restrictions.

He was also a Norton guy...



He had a stack of old brit bikes in back, most I didn't recognize. The experience was incredible.

Anyways. The tire I'm fitting to the rear of my Honda is going to be a Goodyear DT-II 27x7x19 CD5 (medium compound) The tire I have out back now is a 120/90 18 Dunlop K180. It's LOOKS just like a real DT tire, but is DOT approved & speced for the FTR223 Street tracker Honda produces in foreign countries. It does okay, but on the short tracks in a lower gear, I've spun out & lowsided three times now so I'm looking to get a more traction out back.



There, you can also see the spoke kit to lace the stock hub to a 19" (the XL has a 18" out back stock) hoop. Then I heard the Elsinore hub will go in the XL arm...



It's 9lbs, whereas the XL hub is 12lbs! The reason is because the XL hub has a cush drive. I've heard of the XL's having weak 3rd & 4th gears (almost the only two gears I use racing) so I'm kinda spooked about trying this, but the other two XL's I race against both have non cush drive QD wheels without any transmission failures so I'm hoping it's a wive's tale...

To everyone else. Thanks for the welcome & explanation even after I shoved my foot down my mouth. I hope ya'll don't think, 'great, here comes some young punk asshole crotch rocket rider' I've only in the past few years been on the late model machines. Before that, I couldn't afford anything else but old beat up UJM's. So yeah, I've got a soft spot for vintage stuff.

One thing that I think is mistaken. I'm looking for a Norton, yes. But not to race. I like my little single & as new as I am to racing, the pro twins guys would SLAGHTER me. Plus, I can't imagine how much money it's take to keep a Norton is racing condition. I've got about $1500 in my Honda & another complete parts bike & a few race spares. Parts aren't too hard to get, you just have to be crafty!

I just want to find one someday to tinker with & ride on the street. If I ride nothing but the ZX10R on the street it won't be long before I'm pushing up tulips or in jail for the rest of my life with my attitude. So I'd like to find something a little more sedate.

Ya'll have a good one!

Outlaw.

No offense taken or assumed - just when at your age I shouldn't of wasted what I did on a Norton instead of books and food is all. Off right now - more later, relieved you are a crotch rocket pillion toting wet flat tire seasoned ride,whew. hohohobot.

"I invest my money in old motorcycles and beer, I waste the rest" is how most of us here live.
Are there more logical ways to spend your $ and time?, yes
Are there more fun ways to spend your $ and time, maybe
Is anyone here planning to change anytime soon, NO

Welcome home.

Vince

Crime, disease and motorcycle accidents removed most my close buddies before I was 14 in Miami Fla. Toll has just increased since then, lost faith in an after life, so what's hard nose logic tell us, live it the Fuck Up and get away with what ever ya think ya can that turns ya on. Motorcycles give about most bang for the bux and dangers there is.

I've never got to ride on dirt path over 40 yd long w/o ruts, rocks and holes to get into stable crossed up equilibrium. Seems would be easier funner to do on a track so tempted to try it after Outlaw here inspired me with his extended introduction.

I've found 110 tire is easier to break loose unintended than 120 on THE Gravel but 150 and above are easier to break loose unintended - so my interest in Outlaw's opinion/testing. The better the rear grip the harsher ya can go in before breaking loose on purpose to get free. D/t fate forcing it on me I now don't feel free on a cycle till I break free, but its TABOO for me to slide wide = SPLAT - so fascinated by the long slides flat trackers do WOT. I've only had enough dirt/clay/grass experience to know grooves are some help there. Texture only lowers traction on dry pavement or Gravel both with a hard base nothing can bite-dig into, so only tire compound, air pressure and tire size matter. I do not use counter steering forks to steer at *speed* on pavement or THE Gravel - just to hold front up when not lifted up by dolly wheeling it so not to interfere with the rear ruling the roost. To prevent fencing and bluffs in my face I let/make bike fall over on it own, no need to tip over with counter steer so only I straight steer when kicking up heels. You do not slide wider straight steering, only turn harshly sharper or hi side - on purpose in my case to save the low sides crashing on purpose.

I find isolastics have a good influence on tire grip power planting so want to see how it works out on a dirt track by allowing faceting long turns into a series of short straight sprints.

Anywho best wishes on getting a road going Commando and safe success on the loose stuff.

Well here's a couple things Hobot.

I'll ask around within my group of buddy's that race to see if they've heard of a track in your area. Overall in the grand scheme of racing, flat track isn't nearly as popular as it used to be. Much easier to find an MX or roadrace these days. The older guys tell me almost any town used to have a short track. Now technically, anything under a mile track is considered a short track. In reality though, to us (not pros) tracks about 1/4 mile & smaller are what we call 'short 'trackin'

Short tracking is the best way to learn, since you'll be muscling the bike around the most. It'll give ya a workout, for sure! And if you biff it, you're only going about highway speed on a little single. On a larger track (3/8ths to 1/2 mile) you're starting to pick up some speed, even on little bikes...



That's me & my number one buddy, Kyle side by side & inches from each other at 80+ mph! You get a little rest on the straightaway...

There's a track right here in Great Bend, about a mile from my work & I never knew about it my whole life until my buddy invited me out. Sometimes organizers will run a race or two on them, that'd be your best shot at competition.

I've got to get to work, but I'll return with some more tire info to help ya get yer slide on!

Have a good one!

Outlaw.

That neck and neck photo makes my teeth grit and grind to my groin at the 'relaxed' pressure with tires in line. Great Bend is ~400 miles/8 hr from here in Kingston Ark. I've a close buddy I'm trying to get to resurrect his Guppy Racing Team again. We might be able to field a 400 class bike and live to tell.

I sort of have short track skills already as once in a while on SV650 and my Commando special Ms Peel would get crossed up 80-90 on THE Gravel in special spots but mostly only 50-60 in tights I can see beyond for on coming hazards. I could only get SuVee's tire marks 18" apart before she's go nutz with tank slap or slap down back off. Ms Peel with the tri-links could get like 24" apart and stayed stable but only about a second before had to fling 'er the other way as only places to practice are S shaped chicanes. I don't do this but rarely on brand new tires or bald tires as each turn takes off 1/16"+ of meat. Tired it on just 2 turns once on THE Grit with new $300+ worth of race compound tires on SuVee to test compound over cleats to find 1/3 of tires gone! ugh.

I'm drawn to the cycle magazine views of flat tracker tires on various specials but ain't tried those yet.

I am worn down trying to control my boney SV on or off road but am refreshed with the ease to 'over ride' Ms Peel. Uncanny sensation, totally nuetral no effort to hold any angle of lean or forks and no fight back or rebounds even though I can feel frame wind up between grips and pegs. Ms Peel is what I really want to try on dirt track but just to test her as would not fit in a race class. I'm 60 now so want power steering not manhandling like you youngsters : ) With luck and skill you might make it that long too. Motorcycles are dangerous expensive hobby.

Pavement slides would be child's play for you as the slides stop soon as you want.
I'm fascinated by the hi sides that jerk bike back up on its own at end of turns.

Well, other than keeping your elbow off the wall, that's like taking a nap out there, lol!

Guppy racing? I like the sound of that!

I can tell you, the fastest dude in my class ( & a few others) is a few years past 60! Another guy on a box stock (besides a chamber) Elsinor showed up at the Lincoln indoor, to his first flat track race... & he's pushing 70.

I have a favorite dirt road with three switchbacks around a creek to practice my slide on. I can always get it in third & if the stars are aligned.. Mid forth, which is about 70mph close as I can tell by pacing cars on the highway & bailing off before they call the law.

Just don't let this happen to ya...



LONG story... But I made it over 200 miles before the man caught me!

Oh! Tires. I'm a tire / wheel nerd.

I started on K70's.



& they are STICKY! Cheap too! Bad thing is they're skinny & the profile is damn near flat enough to set a coffee cup on.

Then I went to K180's.



& it was a transformation! Buttons was SO much easier to get 'down' in the corners then. A whole other bike. Not as sticky as the 70's though, as I began to spin out a lot easier.

The Norton's have a 19" rear stock right?

If so, dude you got the HOOKUP!

They're damn near impossible to find, but if you want to slide controllably, the K180 was made in a 110/80 19. WAS. Far as anyone knows, Dunlop recently quit production, a damn shame.

There's two other options I'd recommend.

The Goodyear DTII.



They aren't DOT approved, as they're actually a race tire. You can get them in CD2 (soft, almost impossible to find) CD5 (medium, like that one pictured, all over the place) & CD8 (hard, kinda not popular)

Great thing is, there's so many pros that will ditch a set of tires well before they're worn out, these can be picked up for a song. Use a razor blade to take the 'feather' off 'em & you're good to go! Go to VFT.org & look in the classifieds if interested. Other thing. There's two sizes, both 19". A 27x7 (front) & 27.5x7.5 (rear) except for the most powerful bikes, most guys run fronts on back too.

The only other tire I could think of was the Shinko 705.



Never been on the track with a set but I got some on my hot rod KZ650 (hot 750 motor'd) & they are quite possibly the most amazing tire I've rode on for a heavier streetbike. They stick & slide just like I want but I think the compound would be too hard for a bike half the weight & a third the power of my KZ.

If you're thinking about competition, find an XL350 (or 250 if you can stick with a 250 class) strip, tune up, get 19" wheels & safety wire a couple things! Of course just about any older dirt single would work, just I'm partial to the XL now. I was in shock the first time I got my corner speeds up & started pulling on the hot two strokers, in race frames with dudes on them that have been doing this longer than I've been alive. Buttons has put the hurt on a 360 yamaha MX360 & a Bultaco 250, both framed race bikes... With 40 year old rings slapping around in there sounding like a diesel! Almost anytime me & my buddy up there get on the track we duke it out, bar to bar the whole race. The fast guys are out a few bikes in front of us, having their fun. I've rode his bike & it's FAST, handles like a feather too. That bangin' bars action is the best thing I've experienced so far.

Now a TT... Whoa. That's a whole other level of insanity there. Go fast, turn left, no RIGHT, back left... Oh shit, right again! JUMP! BAM. Throw the bike back down into four & come down the front straight grabbing gears (back off to half throttle & jab the shifter up, I bet my transmission hates me) holding onto the left fork to save my soul!

Eh, I'm babbling.

Oh yeah, those crashes are SO much easier now that I've got leathers! I went down three times on the track this year (one highside, that one still hurt for a couple days) & ate it on 155 in the Cali valley around 80 mph. Just a nice slide then rolled off the road into a ditch, damn near caught my 636 in my lap lol!

I keep telling people, if I get as good at riding, as I am crashing... I have this licked!

hobot said:

Great Bend is ~400 miles/8 hr from here in Kingston Ark.

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Apologies for the brief thread highjack but that's a nice part of the world you live in hobot. I had a couple of days riding the Ozarks a week after the INOA rally and had a lunch stop at the diner in the square in Kingston on the second day, before heading up to Eureka Springs.

Glad you got the flavor of my ground zero. My clinic is on the village square next to Grandpa's antiques, which after hours makes a great skid pad.