Starting big singles

mean gene

mean gene

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Looking for advice on starting a big single with compression release. Had the timing a little advanced, now right foot is numb from a kick back. SO will it start with the compression lever pulled in or must you release it at a certain time? Also heard of a process where you watch the amp gage and it will tell you when to kick the engine over. Thanks some times I loose the basic's!
 
mean gene said:
Looking for advice on starting a big single with compression release. Had the timing a little advanced, now right foot is numb from a kick back. SO will it start with the compression lever pulled in or must you release it at a certain time? Also heard of a process where you watch the amp gage and it will tell you when to kick the engine over. Thanks some times I loose the basic's!
Click to expand...
What single are we talking about here??
As a general rule pull the decompression lever in
Nudge the engine past top dead center ideally until the exhaust valve is starting to open
Release the decompression lever
And with the Kickstarter right at the top lunge down on the Kickstarter
Do not open the throttle
In a lot of cases it's opening the throttle that makes a big single kick back
Either get an extended idle adjustment screw and turn it in half a turn or so just to start it
Or set the idle a bit high
The ammeter needle will swing to the right when the points open IE after tdc which is what you want
 
I don't know how the pros do it, but here's my routine for my XT500.
Fuel on
Ignition off
Pull decompression lever and give it a couple kicks
Release decompression lever and push start lever till it reaches point of max resistance
Pull decompression lever and push start lever just a smidge beyond max resistance
Let kick starter go all the way to the top of the stroke
Ignition On
Kick it all the way thru w/o any throttle.
 
It shouldn't start with the lever in because you shouldn't have enough compression, if it is set up correctly.
i have heard of holding the lever in on side valves and giving 2 or 3 kicks to get the engine spinning then letting go of the lever to start it. Never tried that when i had one, as Baz describes works best and thats how my ES2 fires up, usually first kick. Other singles may differ but on mine it doesnt need a leap like starting a Commando, just a firm push once past TDC.
 
Without knowing what engine it is, impossible to answer. Having 6 British singles, all have different starting technique. Check the riders handbook, usually tells how to do.
Kick back is usually ignition too advanced.
If you don't do exactly as in the handbook on a Velocette it will never start. The Vincent is a little bit more forgiving to slight deviations from the standard procedure. The Norton ES2 is a bit more difficult, handbook says that after tickling "rotate the engine with the kickstarter until resistance of compression is felt, raise the exhaust valve lifter and depress the kickstarter a further 2" only. Release the lifter and allow the starter pedal to return to its normal position. A good swinging kick on the starter should set the engine going. " The BSAs have a different technique. The 16H was fairly easy, you could mess it up and it still started.
Most bikes I have wants a small amount of throttle. Amount of tickling can vary.
 
Mike40M said:
Without knowing what engine it is, impossible to answer. Having 6 British singles, all have different starting technique. Check the riders handbook, usually tells how to do.
Kick back is usually ignition too advanced.
If you don't do exactly as in the handbook on a Velocette it will never start. The Vincent is a little bit more forgiving to slight deviations from the standard procedure. The Norton ES2 is a bit more difficult, handbook says that after tickling "rotate the engine with the kickstarter until resistance of compression is felt, raise the exhaust valve lifter and depress the kickstarter a further 2" only. Release the lifter and allow the starter pedal to return to its normal position. A good swinging kick on the starter should set the engine going. " The BSAs have a different technique. The 16H was fairly easy, you could mess it up and it still started.
Most bikes I have wants a small amount of throttle. Amount of tickling can vary.
Click to expand...
Yep
Definitely need to know what engine we are talking about
And even then no two are the same!!!
My b50 needs to be flooded up on the tickler button
Don't touch the throttle
Has to be past tdc with the exhaust valve opening
Kickstart has to be all the way to the top
I got these tips from b50.org and found it very helpful with such high compression and such a light crank
 
It's a 441 Shooting Star and I have a light ass! The old guys used to watch the amp meter and then kick accordingly (now I'm the old guy). Going to manual to double check timing. Bought it, owner said it runs, carb has been dry for many years, who knows guess I'll start page one LOL I did change oil and cleaned sump, kicked until I had oil return.
 
Have dealt with several big singles over the yrs , every one had more or less same procedure as above , I do have a ‘19 dr650 on the way and surprisingly it starts on the button ! … once you onto the onto the BSA , no more difficult than your Norton unless it hot …
 
From the BSA Owners Handbook: ...tickler momentarily... Open the twist grip a small amount only.... push the starter pedal down slowly until resistance is felt, then depress and immediately release the exhaust valve lifter and give the pedal a firm downward swing which should set the motor in motion..... No tickle when hot.
A bit different drill to my other bikes. Depends on gearing between kick and engine, cam timing, ignition timing, carb and other things.
Light ass, when I bought my first B44 in 1970, weight was 120 pounds. Started easily. The Gold Star I had before was almost impossible to kick.
 
Mike40M said:
From the BSA Owners Handbook: ...tickler momentarily... Open the twist grip a small amount only.... push the starter pedal down slowly until resistance is felt, then depress and immediately release the exhaust valve lifter and give the pedal a firm downward swing which should set the motor in motion..... No tickle when hot.
A bit different drill to my other bikes. Depends on gearing between kick and engine, cam timing, ignition timing, carb and other things.
Light ass, when I bought my first B44 in 1970, weight was 120 pounds. Started easily. The Gold Star I had before was almost impossible to kick.
Click to expand...
The only thing I would add to this is on my b50 I can feel through the decomp lever that the exhaust valve is opening
And that's exactly where you want it for starting
And it's basically the same engine as a b44
It's the kickstart ratchet gearing and a very light crankshaft that makes it awkward
 
Yea it does seem a little weird, it turns over so easily til you get compression, then really doesn't carry thru. Thanks all for info! The only experience I had with compression releases were on two strokes. I'll keep all informed with out come.
 
mean gene said:
Yea it does seem a little weird, it turns over so easily til you get compression, then really doesn't carry thru. Thanks all for info! The only experience I had with compression releases were on two strokes. I'll keep all informed with out come.
Click to expand...
So with your b44 turn the fuel on
Tickle the carb until it floods
Turn ignition on
Pull in decompression lever and kick it through a few times
You may here the engine trying to fire that's a good sign
Now nudge the engine past tdc
You will see the ammeter swing to the + as you get past tdc
You should be able to feel the exhaust rocker arm opening through the feel of the decompression lever
Return the kickstart lever to the top then with the throttle closed or maybe cracked open very slightly give it to a good kick
If your timing is correct
Your mixture and idle screw about right it should start
 
Craig said:
Have dealt with several big singles over the yrs , every one had more or less same procedure as above , I do have a ‘19 dr650 on the way and surprisingly it starts on the button ! … once you onto the onto the BSA , no more difficult than your Norton unless it hot …
Click to expand...

The DR has a centrifugal exhaust valve de compressor on its camshaft.

I remember borrowing a 1986 (iirc) KTM 600 (Rotax engine and had a window in the timing belt cover that a white mark world appear in for kick starting)
It was still very tall and hard to start.

Electric start for the win.
 
Best Way is to live up a steep hill ! .

Starting big singles

Starting big singles


You want to be sure the auto advance is o.k. & working . If its got one . Full Advance & Ka Pow . Rattly worn A adv. stick & rattle . :confused:
A first clas cleaned & lubed ones good . Should be no tight spots or sticking , with the springs off . Fine N N Pliers . DONT STRETCH the springs , on & offing them .

Theres a BSA singles site . For dedicated nutters . / https://www.b50.org/phpBB2/index.php

Pays to ' mirror finish ' the working faces . Dryed up old grease or rust spots are trouble .

Starting big singles
 
Starting big singles

Thats a BAKELITE or wotever one .

SOAK IN POINTS CAM LUBE .

The orrible nylon ones , you use a toothpick , smear whole cleaned cam , wipe almost .
Grease along contact on orrible white nylon , let close. Toothpick excess off . And Again
after 50 miles .
If it gets dirty or dusty , repeat . UNLUBED white NYLON dematerialise the heel in 10 miutes ,
a melted pushed over edge of the orrible white nylon , shows its dry & melting .
Go Back to STEP ONE ! .

Starting big singles


orrible white nylon one . ran Em in the
Commando , so theyre Not That Bad .

If the Whole Cabbodle is kept CLEAN
Unlubed youre DOOMED .

Starting big singles
 
This reminds me. When I was a mechanic I had a customer come in and unload his bike. I got a blank service ticket out and ask him when he needed. he said He needed a tune up, anything to get the bike running. Then he confided in me that he had bought the bike, had heard the bike run but was never able to get it started. The bike in question was a square barreled 441 Victor. I walked aroud it and asked if I could give it a try?

With the gas on I tickled the carb.
I used the compression release to turn the engine over a couple of times to prime it.
I used the compression release again to east the piston just over TDC.
I turned ignition on.
I returned kickstart lever to the top of the stroke and gave it a solid but over hard kick.
It fired right up.

I thought the guy would be pleased but he was pissed. "It's TRICK! He blurted out." I had no idea how long he had been try to start it but I am sure it was pretty cruel. As many of you know, you think you are kicking the bike through but all you are doing is slipping through the clutch. I told him that yes, it was a trick but I could show him. I gave him a lesson and helped him put his bike back in the truck. He called me at the shop a few hours later completely overjoyed. He had managed the trick.
 
It’s very hard to roll start(clutch) a B50 as the back wheel will just lock up even in 2nd gear. You have to engage 2nd and then roll it backwards until your over compression. Yep just like when you kick it with a kicker.
 
Big_Jim59 said:
This reminds me. When I was a mechanic I had a customer come in and unload his bike. I got a blank service ticket out and ask him when he needed. he said He needed a tune up, anything to get the bike running. Then he confided in me that he had bought the bike, had heard the bike run but was never able to get it started. The bike in question was a square barreled 441 Victor. I walked aroud it and asked if I could give it a try?

With the gas on I tickled the carb.
I used the compression release to turn the engine over a couple of times to prime it.
I used the compression release again to east the piston just over TDC.
I turned ignition on.
I returned kickstart lever to the top of the stroke and gave it a solid but over hard kick.
It fired right up.

I thought the guy would be pleased but he was pissed. "It's TRICK! He blurted out." I had no idea how long he had been try to start it but I am sure it was pretty cruel. As many of you know, you think you are kicking the bike through but all you are doing is slipping through the clutch. I told him that yes, it was a trick but I could show him. I gave him a lesson and helped him put his bike back in the truck. He called me at the shop a few hours later completely overjoyed. He had managed the trick.
Click to expand...
He was probably trying to kick it through compression
My b50 is bored to 510cc with total seal piston rings
You can not kick it through compression ,it'll hold my 15st without turning over
 
baz said:
He was probably trying to kick it through compression
My b50 is bored to 510cc with total seal piston rings
You can not kick it through compression ,it'll hold my 15st without turning over
Click to expand...
I think that's the biggest issue. People kick their bike and think they are kicking it through when in fact they are just slipping through the clutch. Then they get mad because they know they are kicking it over.
 
I have kick started a 1000cc Vincent which was on 13 to 1 compression. If you turn the petrol on and gently force the piston go over TDC, you should get enough mixture in the inlet port and combustion chamber to start the motor. For the next kick, you need to push the piston about two-thirds up the stroke against compression, then give it a quick shove over TDC.
If it does not start, it is not going to. Have a look at your ignition system.
Some guys kick the shit out of their motor, if it bounces back off compression it can break your ankle.
Sometimes spark plugs can become internally conducting, if the bike is left standing for a long time
If the motor fires back as you push it over compression, you should be able to hold it, so don't do anything quickly
 

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