Spark plugs

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@MexicoMike it’s only an ‘issue’ for those with a dual output single coil.

Most people are still running two separate coils, so it’s a non-issue.

Whether or not the ignition system is wasted spark has nothing to do with it.


‘Issue’ in this case, is someone that has picked a precious metal plug (like iridium or platinum) as they believe there is a benefit of longer service life and slower electrode erosion is worth the price premium.

That benefit is only there on one plug if only the centre electrode is precious metal.


As you note, swapping the plugs is still a good idea!
 
Leaving polarity/reverse spark aside, the fine point of a precious metal plug offers a more reliable and stronger spark too. A spark initiates more easily from a sharp point than from a dull one. A sharp point can fire under the high cylinder pressures that will quench any regular electrode plug.

I always run a precious metal plug for this reason because it allows .01” more gap, or more, and that assists almost all phases of running.

Iridium far surpasses platinum in resistance to heat.
 
If your ignition system is weak, try precious metal plugs.

With regular plugs, try opening plug gaps to the point of missing on those regular plugs, then install a set of iridiums. Bingo!
 
bill said:
The rita is an old design that is power hungry and does not play well with dual tower coils and is no longer supported. The pazon sure fire is an analog ign and as such does not have idle stabilization. And lastly if you have followed my posts with 3 trispark failures and the 3rd not even lasting as long as a rear tire along 3 stators costing me $150.00 each on top if the original cost it is why i am where i am at now.
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You have burned through 3 stators ,what rectifier -regulator are you using ?
Paul
 
HRD said:
You have burned through 3 stators ,what rectifier -regulator are you using ?
Paul
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The stators are not the charging stator. The stator is what trispark calls the unit under the points cover and is in reality the amplifier. As to RR unit it is a podtronics and the charging system is fine.
 
ok ,thanks for the added info.Would be interesting to know why put electronics in such a harsh enviroment and being able to source components that have the required temperature margin to give a reasonable MTBF( mean time between failure ) perhaps that's the thing unless special / mil grade components are used .
 
Time Warp said:
https://e3sparkplugs.com/
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They may be good for some applications but I bought a Mercedes 190 a few years ago really cheap because nobody could fix the intermittent warm start problem. It always started cold but when it was anything but cold -you couldn't count on it. After a lot of time and a bunch spent on parts I finally took out the nice clean e3 plugs that were in it and put in a set of Bosch's. Problem solved.

Never tried them again after that.
 
the E3 plugs remind me of the SA fire injectors of years ago. SNAKE OIL.
 
Danno said:
Since the spark will only jump at the point of least resistance, the other two tangs do nothing other than to flummox the heat flow. Snake oil.
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My thoughts exactly.

I’m also thinking that with 3 tangs protruding into the combustion chamber, perhaps there’s 3 times the heat transfer into the plug body, with less than positive consequences ?
 
Like everything else in the (soon to be) obsolete internal combustion engine world, spark plug marketing contains as much snake oil as "performance mufflers," "performance air filters," and performance "anything else." As noted, the spark will only jump between the points of least resistance. It will also ONLY require the minimum voltage it takes to do so. If it takes 15,000 volts to jump the spark plug gap, a "50,000 volt" coil does not provide "more spark," a "better spark," or a "hotter spark" than a 20,000 volt coil. Neither does "multi spark," one of the best of the Snake oil claims.

Precious metal fine wire plugs were designed for their advantage re emissions - they last longer in service than standard plugs. They do not spark "better," hotter, or anything else. But because auto manufacturers were/are required to warranty the emissions systems for X years, they were developed/used to (hopefully) ensure proper emissions for the period of the warranty. UNBIASED dyno tests show there is no power difference between standard plugs and fine wire plugs. Pay NO attention to any dyno claim from a spark plug company. They are trying to sell something and it's really easy to make "adjustments" to "prove" their spark plugs - or their mufflers, or their air filters, or their (fill in the blank) - make more power
 
Well said Mike, for standard OEM operating conditions.

If however the conditions include marginal but functional carburetion and ignition, or marginal combustion, then precious metal plugs can make a real difference.
 
MexicoMike said:
If it takes 15,000 volts to jump the spark plug gap, a "50,000 volt" coil does not provide "more spark," a "better spark," or a "hotter spark" than a 20,000 volt coil.
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For any given plug gap, that's true. But a higher voltage coil would allow the gap to be opened more, exposing more spark and a wider flame front to the combustion chamber. Better spark, more complete combustion.

I'll agree that most plug claims are snake oil, but there are some physics at play that can be taken advantage of. The tendency for electrons to congregate at sharp edges means that a sharp pointy electrode should fire at a lower voltage than a rounded one. The sooner the plug fires, the more energy (heat) is captured in the spark.
 
" Neither does "multi spark," one of the best of the Snake oil claims."

As far as any ignition your going to bolt on a Norton, I would agree, but.

I have used some plasma and multiple spark systems that required retarding the timing by several degrees to avoid detonation. Detonation that was not there with a good conventional ignition with the same timing.

These systems did make a little more power and got better fuel mileage.

I should add. There was no more peak horsepower but the midrange torque was higher.
 
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Multi Spark - MSD being the best known - is multi spark because the spark duration of the system with the type of transistorized ignition configuration they used is shorter than optimum for best ignition. IOW the spark does not exist as long as it should SO...they "invented" multi spark to compensate for that short spark - essentially "hooking together" several really short (in time, not distance) sparks to create one good spark.

If you think about how ignition works, a second (or third or fourth) spark in the sense of really being separate "normal" sparks cannot do anything useful. The flame front has already ignited with the first spark, subsequent sparks can't ignite anything because there is nothing there to ignite. The Multi spark is simply several sparks done so quickly as to become one "normal" spark at the correct firing time.

It is true, of course that a higher powered ignition circuit will ignite a mixture under adverse conditions where a standard ignition might not. High compression situations come immediately to mind. So, as noted, a higher power ignition system will be useful in situations where the standard system is not up to the task. Also, as mentione, opening the plug gap can improve the flame propagation in the cylinder depending on cylinder design. As is true of so many things, it takes some experimentation to determine what works best for any engine in whatever application. If you want to seriously get into spark plugs, we have to talk about indexing! ;)

Yes, it works...on some engines, not noticeable on others. No idea re Nortons. :)
 
MexicoMike said:
Multi Spark - MSD being the best known - is multi spark because the spark duration of the system with the type of transistorized ignition configuration they used is shorter than optimum for best ignition. IOW the spark does not exist as long as it should SO...they "invented" multi spark to compensate for that short spark - essentially "hooking together" several really short (in time, not distance) sparks to create one good spark.

If you think about how ignition works, a second (or third or fourth) spark in the sense of really being separate "normal" sparks cannot do anything useful. The flame front has already ignited with the first spark, subsequent sparks can't ignite anything because there is nothing there to ignite. The Multi spark is simply several sparks done so quickly as to become one "normal" spark at the correct firing time.

It is true, of course that a higher powered ignition circuit will ignite a mixture under adverse conditions where a standard ignition might not. High compression situations come immediately to mind. So, as noted, a higher power ignition system will be useful in situations where the standard system is not up to the task. Also, as mentione, opening the plug gap can improve the flame propagation in the cylinder depending on cylinder design. As is true of so many things, it takes some experimentation to determine what works best for any engine in whatever application. If you want to seriously get into spark plugs, we have to talk about indexing! ;)

Yes, it works...on some engines, not noticeable on others. No idea re Nortons. :)
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It works on engine with high swirl where the mixture is moving fast in the area of the spark plug.

It does take a hot short duration spark like provided by the CD output of a MSD ignition to create a series of sparks hot enough to light the mixture.

The fast movement of the mixture means you can light the mixture in several places as it moves by the plug.

It does work on some engines -but not all -as it depends on the mixture motion in the cylinder.

The gain was highest on the engines which needed the most timing change to prevent pinging.

I have dyno slips showing the results on 1 turbocharged olds 455, 1 stock Chevy 350, a high compression inline 6 Mercedes, and a couple Nortons. The Mercedes 6 showed the largest increase. The Chevy showed the least improvement.

The modified [high frequency] MSD on my Norton raised the cylinder head temps quite a bit and caused ignition noise problems with my injection system. It was necessary to retard the ignition timing at 3500 rpm from 28 degrees to 18 degrees to prevent pinging. I ran it [struggled with it] for one summer and then went back to single spark ignition.
 
So does anyone have any insight as to which plug is the most resistant when considering quenching...or do the plugs referred to previously offer a charge/spark hot enough to take it out of consideration.
 
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