Sir Edward Bilton-Smith Late Great Norton twins
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Snorton74 said:
I still have all the old emails on my other computer, most are salvageble, and i need to go in and secure stuff i saved, but its very time consuming. Eddy copied me all the emails on that topic and we discussed it at length. At the time, I was pushing him to make MORE stuff, I told him none of this stuff is ever going to sell in high volume, but should be a steady sales item, but if you had, say 10-15 different products, then you make a nice little nut each month, but you arent going to pay the mortgage on just 1 or 2 items. We looked at some other ideas at the time but it never went anywhere. You also have to understand how MANY hours it takes to make the casting dies to make these,, its lost wax, or investment castings. Not some shitty 3rd world sand casting with barefoot kids in a sweatshop in the far east.
Eddy and I respect CNW, there was never any insult to them, so dont take it that way. they seem to have a nice operation and it seemed natural to try and lock down a quality product. They approached and made the pitch that they had a great marketing operation and they would handle all the sales, Eddy would continue to make them exclusively for them. They wanted the prices down a bit, add their nut and it would come out slightly above what Eddy was already charging.
We talked and Eddy pondered it for a while, Then he added up his expenses, the heat treat, polishing and his finish machine work and decided he wasnt charging enough. That email was kinda funny. I dont think they expected that. He came out with new pricing and made them an offer they turned down, also he made the offer that CNW COULD or SHOULD just buy the casting Dies and the whole kaboodle and they could own it all and do as they pleased. I dont know how many people on here understand the Tool and Die business, but it requires serious investment to make that stuff. His price was fair but i dont think they liked that idea.
They seemed more interested in just securing the source than owning the manufacturing, More power to them but we kinda laughed about that.
So Eddy decided to just keep selling them on his own. You never HAD to go thru eBay, Eddy dealt direct with people all the time.
I took Dave Smith over there 2 weeks ago and Eddy pulled out the Dies and showed Dave. Theres still a number of sets of covers and oilers left. I know the guy who runs the foundry who did the wax and poured the alloy, Eddy handled the rest, We could keep making them, I used to work in Investment castings as well But the family will decide at some point what to do with the operation. Perhaps we might sell it. Every time he made a batch it costs thousands to run them and they sell slowly to get your money back. Too soon to say what will happen. I have a couple sets on hold for my projects, We shall see what happens in the future.
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While we are on the topic I thought you guys might find it interesting the why Eddy made the castings for Nortons in the first place.
Its all Unity Equipes fault,
I know Jackie at Unity and like them, used to order from them from time to time. We noticed they started selling stuff on Fee-Bay and they had some of those old Dunstall style sand cast Rocker covers. Kind of cool, but very crudely made. Eddy had a set I gave him or one of the other local Norton guys gave him. Eddy is a perfectionist to the obsessive-compulsive level. They drove him nuts, he yelled about them, cursed them and ranted excessively. Lets just say most of it isnt printable here. (no disrespect to Unity,,in fact the set Eddy looked at came from elsewhere) But he felt they were horrible castings, almost embarassing to put on a bike. He put them in his mill and tried to clean them up, smooth the lines. It didnt go well.
So unity put up some covers on auction, and said that the guy making them was retiring and no more were to be made, last of the lot, get them while you can. As a result the bidding went nuts, and they sold for some astronomical sum,, 300 or 400 dollars. Eddy was gobsmacked. He couldnt believe people would pay that much for a sloppy sand casting. And of course, with his ego,, "I can do better"
He made the dies and tooling for his own version. (research what that takes, no small feat) and of course his WERE magnificent. So I started making the pitch on all kinds of internet forums, and promoting Eddy. It blew up on the BI list. Jackie from Unity blew a gasket. ranted quite a bit about taking food off their table, Eddy had no rights to the product and he should "Purchase" the manufacturing rights from them. and also,, he he,, that an "American" was taking away business from the British.
I like Jackie, but she spouts off without the facts often. I pointed out Eddy was English and a few other flaws in her rantings. It was kinda amusing, Eddy got a big kick out of it. Of Course Unity or anyone else COULD have purchased the tooling and the equipment from Eddy, just like a tavern, it was always for sale for the right price.
Each time stock ran low Eddy worried about making more castings, it costs a lot to make them and do the work. There is a reason he charged as much as he did. A lot of people complain about other companys or individual products but few people actually understand what it takes to manufacture a quality product, invest huge sums amd then try to recoup your costs,let alone turn a profit.
Right now, theres a lot of really interesting stuff being made in Asia and India, Im amazed at the obscure stuff thats being made.For the first time I can buy NEW fenders for my 51 plunger framed BSA's, New Tanks and fenders for my wifes 47 Es2 Norton, new sheetmetal for a model 19, I can get NEW parts for my 1947 Famous james. A lot of people are complaining about it, saying the stuff is junk, and some of it is poorly made, but a lot of it is not bad at all. I have had 2 decades of complaints about the poor quality coming out of the UK for repop parts. they have nothing to say compared to the Indian parts. Anyone who has restored bikes for a living long ago got used to the idea of having to rework parts to fit or function. I will always try and support the UK manufacturers but I am really pleased to see some of the stuff coming out now at affordable prices from the far east. and yes, I do order the stuff. Eddys parts are without peer. But its very hard to find that. If you think otherwise then step up and hang your shingle out there and make your own stuff and see how that goes
Its all Unity Equipes fault,
I know Jackie at Unity and like them, used to order from them from time to time. We noticed they started selling stuff on Fee-Bay and they had some of those old Dunstall style sand cast Rocker covers. Kind of cool, but very crudely made. Eddy had a set I gave him or one of the other local Norton guys gave him. Eddy is a perfectionist to the obsessive-compulsive level. They drove him nuts, he yelled about them, cursed them and ranted excessively. Lets just say most of it isnt printable here. (no disrespect to Unity,,in fact the set Eddy looked at came from elsewhere) But he felt they were horrible castings, almost embarassing to put on a bike. He put them in his mill and tried to clean them up, smooth the lines. It didnt go well.
So unity put up some covers on auction, and said that the guy making them was retiring and no more were to be made, last of the lot, get them while you can. As a result the bidding went nuts, and they sold for some astronomical sum,, 300 or 400 dollars. Eddy was gobsmacked. He couldnt believe people would pay that much for a sloppy sand casting. And of course, with his ego,, "I can do better"
He made the dies and tooling for his own version. (research what that takes, no small feat) and of course his WERE magnificent. So I started making the pitch on all kinds of internet forums, and promoting Eddy. It blew up on the BI list. Jackie from Unity blew a gasket. ranted quite a bit about taking food off their table, Eddy had no rights to the product and he should "Purchase" the manufacturing rights from them. and also,, he he,, that an "American" was taking away business from the British.
I like Jackie, but she spouts off without the facts often. I pointed out Eddy was English and a few other flaws in her rantings. It was kinda amusing, Eddy got a big kick out of it. Of Course Unity or anyone else COULD have purchased the tooling and the equipment from Eddy, just like a tavern, it was always for sale for the right price.
Each time stock ran low Eddy worried about making more castings, it costs a lot to make them and do the work. There is a reason he charged as much as he did. A lot of people complain about other companys or individual products but few people actually understand what it takes to manufacture a quality product, invest huge sums amd then try to recoup your costs,let alone turn a profit.
Right now, theres a lot of really interesting stuff being made in Asia and India, Im amazed at the obscure stuff thats being made.For the first time I can buy NEW fenders for my 51 plunger framed BSA's, New Tanks and fenders for my wifes 47 Es2 Norton, new sheetmetal for a model 19, I can get NEW parts for my 1947 Famous james. A lot of people are complaining about it, saying the stuff is junk, and some of it is poorly made, but a lot of it is not bad at all. I have had 2 decades of complaints about the poor quality coming out of the UK for repop parts. they have nothing to say compared to the Indian parts. Anyone who has restored bikes for a living long ago got used to the idea of having to rework parts to fit or function. I will always try and support the UK manufacturers but I am really pleased to see some of the stuff coming out now at affordable prices from the far east. and yes, I do order the stuff. Eddys parts are without peer. But its very hard to find that. If you think otherwise then step up and hang your shingle out there and make your own stuff and see how that goes
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All this talk about the castings reminded me that I had bought a set of finned rocker covers a few years back and
thinking it was from someone in Oregon. Cannot find the paperwork on the buy at the moment, but here is what I have,
is this some of Sir Eddy's work?
If it is, its nice to know the story behind them.
thinking it was from someone in Oregon. Cannot find the paperwork on the buy at the moment, but here is what I have,
is this some of Sir Eddy's work?
If it is, its nice to know the story behind them.
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This is Ed's oldest, Andy. Thank you all for your condolences. The family is doing better one day at a time... To answer the big question, yes, the world record run will happen. My brother Paul, who road raced himself on a vintage Honda 550 some years ago, will complete the bike with assistance from as many who will help as a tribute to our beloved dad! I'm sure he will also join this forum soon. Right now, we are grieving and preparing for Dad's memorial on Thursday, Nov 8th at 10am at St Patrick's Church in Canby, Oregon... I am very proud of my dad and his accomplishments. He and his amazing mind and heart will be sorely missed. Thank you for all of your support so far in this amazing endeavor. It will come to fruition with your help!!! Dad's castings are still available for sale currently on Ebay and also here on this forum. For now, there is a limited supply remaining so get them while you can. Every penny will go toward the completion of the World Record Bike! We are also working on a T-shirt re-run to raise funds for "Sir Eddy's Rocket". FYI Paul, PJ (his son-in-law) and I will be attending the Norton Club meeting here in Portland at 11am today 11/3 at the Horse Brass Pub. We will be showing a tribute video and bringing pics of Dad racing back before I was born (I'm 47). We are considering beginning a documentary about the production of the Rocket from here on out as a tribute to Dad. World's Fastest Norton...
I'm sure he will also join this forum soon. Right now, we are grieving and preparing for Dad's memorial on Thursday, Nov 8th at 10am at St Patrick's Church in Canby, Oregon... I am very proud of my dad and his accomplishments. He and his amazing mind and heart will be sorely missed. Thank you for all of your support so far in this amazing endeavor. It will come to fruition with your help!!! Dad's castings are still available for sale currently on Ebay and also here on this forum. For now, there is a limited supply remaining so get them while you can. Every penny will go toward the completion of the World Record Bike! We are also working on a T-shirt re-run to raise funds for "Sir Eddy's Rocket". FYI Paul, PJ (his son-in-law) and I will be attending the Norton Club meeting here in Portland at 11am today 11/3 at the Horse Brass Pub. We will be showing a tribute video and bringing pics of Dad racing back before I was born (I'm 47). We are considering beginning a documentary about the production of the Rocket from here on out as a tribute to Dad. World's Fastest Norton... 
Son of Siredward
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Hello all,
This is Paul, Ed's #3 son. I want you all to know that we appreciate all your prayers and kind words. Doug has been a huge part of keeping everyone informed and helping my dads legacy and dream continue. Connie, his wife, is doing better. The more we are all together she is able to heal, she has comfort that Ed has gone home and is watching over all of us. Ed's funeral will be next Thursday the 8th of November at St Patricks in Canby Oregon @ 10:00 AM and his burial will be at the Memorial Cemetary in Happy Valley with military honors @ 2:00 PM.
After this week I will be busy getting the ball rolling getting all the parts located and together for the Norton 500 twin rocket landspeed record. As Doug has already stated most of all the development is done now it just needs to be mocked up to check clearances and then assembled. It sounds easy but a lot of the information was in my dads head with only some notes. I can say that my dad's best friend Les Barker at Little Engine Service has been part of the development of this motor from the begining, I am relying on Les to help with the motor, I very much apprecaite this and don't think it could come together without him. Doug has had multiple conversations with Ed about the entire project. I will work with Doug on the chassis and am sure he can figure most of it out. I have already been offered help with any machining needed by Bob Fugate one of dad's mates from the local Norton Club which is also much appreciated. The Billet Crank is almost finished, I reached out to Greg Blagus on Friday to let him know about the passing of my dad and he was very sad to hear the bad news. He only knew my dad for a short period, he made a statement that he was not the normal engine builder he dealt with and wasnt sure what dad needed him for, it seemed that he was more than capable to tackle it himself. He said to me that he usually he would not build a motorcyle crank but he was so intrigued after talking with my dad that he wanted to make sure he had a small part in his dream. Les is going to get with Greg on the oil passage and finishing specs on the grinding, thank you Les!
My dad was an amazing man that was a genius when it came to engine development. This motor is a a master piece with hours of work and discussions to insure it will take the 11,000 rpm it will wind up to. I know that you all are anxious to see this come together and hear the high pitch scream @ 11,000 rpm out of this 90 degree Norton 500 twin smoking down the salt flats. As my brother Andy stated we will be coming out with T-Shirts to help fund this project and hope that you all will need one, two or ten to wear to your local club!
My dad's dream will come true and we will be at speed week to set the record and take it home to my dad!
This is Paul, Ed's #3 son. I want you all to know that we appreciate all your prayers and kind words. Doug has been a huge part of keeping everyone informed and helping my dads legacy and dream continue. Connie, his wife, is doing better. The more we are all together she is able to heal, she has comfort that Ed has gone home and is watching over all of us. Ed's funeral will be next Thursday the 8th of November at St Patricks in Canby Oregon @ 10:00 AM and his burial will be at the Memorial Cemetary in Happy Valley with military honors @ 2:00 PM.
After this week I will be busy getting the ball rolling getting all the parts located and together for the Norton 500 twin rocket landspeed record. As Doug has already stated most of all the development is done now it just needs to be mocked up to check clearances and then assembled. It sounds easy but a lot of the information was in my dads head with only some notes. I can say that my dad's best friend Les Barker at Little Engine Service has been part of the development of this motor from the begining, I am relying on Les to help with the motor, I very much apprecaite this and don't think it could come together without him. Doug has had multiple conversations with Ed about the entire project. I will work with Doug on the chassis and am sure he can figure most of it out. I have already been offered help with any machining needed by Bob Fugate one of dad's mates from the local Norton Club which is also much appreciated. The Billet Crank is almost finished, I reached out to Greg Blagus on Friday to let him know about the passing of my dad and he was very sad to hear the bad news. He only knew my dad for a short period, he made a statement that he was not the normal engine builder he dealt with and wasnt sure what dad needed him for, it seemed that he was more than capable to tackle it himself. He said to me that he usually he would not build a motorcyle crank but he was so intrigued after talking with my dad that he wanted to make sure he had a small part in his dream. Les is going to get with Greg on the oil passage and finishing specs on the grinding, thank you Les!
My dad was an amazing man that was a genius when it came to engine development. This motor is a a master piece with hours of work and discussions to insure it will take the 11,000 rpm it will wind up to. I know that you all are anxious to see this come together and hear the high pitch scream @ 11,000 rpm out of this 90 degree Norton 500 twin smoking down the salt flats. As my brother Andy stated we will be coming out with T-Shirts to help fund this project and hope that you all will need one, two or ten to wear to your local club!
My dad's dream will come true and we will be at speed week to set the record and take it home to my dad!
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Sorry regarding youre loss .
The 11.000 seems atainable , remembering the yucky CX hondas did 10.500 on pushrods .
It will certainly be moveing the boundaries nevetheless . Great Good Fortune with the Project .
The 11.000 seems atainable , remembering the yucky CX hondas did 10.500 on pushrods .
It will certainly be moveing the boundaries nevetheless . Great Good Fortune with the Project .
Son of Siredward
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Hello all,
Please see the attached video of our dads Edward Bilton-Smith (Sir Eddy) Celebration of Life. You will see his early Norton roadracing pics, Horton and pics of the land speed record 500cc Norton we are currently getting all the parts inventoried and planning assembly. Doug Mcguire and Les Barker from Little Engine Service are helping to put the piece together. We will be ready for Speed Week 2013.
Turn up the sound and enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2JaF7Y8 ... e=youtu.be
Cut and past if it does't link for you...
Please see the attached video of our dads Edward Bilton-Smith (Sir Eddy) Celebration of Life. You will see his early Norton roadracing pics, Horton and pics of the land speed record 500cc Norton we are currently getting all the parts inventoried and planning assembly. Doug Mcguire and Les Barker from Little Engine Service are helping to put the piece together. We will be ready for Speed Week 2013.
Turn up the sound and enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2JaF7Y8 ... e=youtu.be
Cut and past if it does't link for you...
Hortons Norton
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Wow thanks for this great video! I'm sitting here in the garage looking at the covers from your dad. I hope to make it to speedweek. Thanks again, Chuck.
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Thanks for that Paul.
Son of Siredward
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Just want you all to know that my oldest brother Andy purchased the Horton back from the guy who had it for sale on EBAY.
He held him hostage and made him pay dearly but it is back in the family and heading to Kona...
The LSR 500 is still moving forward at a crawl it seems but we are waiting on the crank to start assembly on the motor.
The swing arm is out to be shortened and modified to fit.
He held him hostage and made him pay dearly but it is back in the family and heading to Kona...
The LSR 500 is still moving forward at a crawl it seems but we are waiting on the crank to start assembly on the motor.
The swing arm is out to be shortened and modified to fit.
That's good news to hear about the Horton. When I saw it for sale I really liked it and wished I could afford it. It would be cool if you started a thread about it. I know some of us would like to know more about it. Especially pictures and any build details.
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Thanks f or the reminder. I've got a Seeley out in the shed, and I've got to replace the selector drum in the gearbox. Unfortunately It's been too hot (around 42 degrees celcius). I will be 72 this year, and some of the shots in the video really hold the mirror up to me, It could have been me in some of those races. I've had 3 strokes an d a double bypass operation, and these days I do what is necessary to stay on the right side of the grass. None of us live forever. I was most impressed by Eddy making the crankshaft - really good stuff. Sorry he has passed away, and I did not get to know him. I love guys like that who are real goers.
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