Shorai - dont do what I did

Jerry Doe · Jul 20, 2014

I have 2 Shorai lithium batteries in parallel in my MK3. I was really excited to go for a blat this morning, went to turn key on and realized I left ignition on last time. Batteries completely flat 0 volts. I have a battery tender plus charger. I found out that won't work below 3 volts. I have a normal battery charger and have tried a low charge for a few hours and still nothing. I am thinking I screwed it. Has anyone else done this with Shorai lithium and were you able to recover the battery?

Cheers-- Jerry

jaydee75 · Jul 20, 2014

Sometimes chargers won't work on a completely flat battery. You can put a car battery or something in the loop to give it a load. ie, hook the car battery to your Shorai and then put the charger on the car battery. HTH.
Jaydee

Nater_Potater · Jul 20, 2014

Jerry Doe said:
...and realized I left ignition on last time.

Cheers-- Jerry

How long left on? I imagine you're SOL, as Li-Ion batteries don't tolerate lengthy discharges. 'Hate to be the bearer of bad news...

On a side note; when not in use, the battery with the slightly higher voltage will be discharged into the lower voltage battery. There'll always be some mis-match, even with "matched" batteries. To avoid this situation, try to get a replacement battery that has the capacity to to handle your needs without wiring two in parallel. That, or do like the R/V cats do, and wire two 6 volt batteries in series.

Nathan

Hobot · Jul 20, 2014

Li electrodes and electrolyte expand and contract with charge and discharge so may have internally fractured it to cause internal shorts that are famous for spontaneous combustion horror tales so might consider storing batteries out side till getting a charge to hold or tossing out some more experimental money. Look up Li 'puterizied chargers that monitor temp/time/volts to charge up correctly w/o damage. Tiny Gel cell alarm type batteries at much lower ah rating than Li rating required will please a forgetful old fart a long time I found.
Further reading to consider next move.
https://www.google.com/#q=li+discharged+to+zero

Jerry Doe · Jul 20, 2014

Thanks for the info

I think I am fu****

Oh well- I wont do that again

worntorn · Jul 20, 2014

Don't feel bad Jerry, I also trashed two expensive li batteries in the last while. I am all done testing them, no more expensive frail batteries for me, back to AGM or sealed lead acid.

Glen

Jerry Doe · Jul 20, 2014

Hey Glen,

Yes, I need to research other options. Can you give me more details on AGM?
I had no idea these lithium's were so frail. It has been the first time I used them. I think they might have lasted a few years if I didn't leave the ignition on for 4 days, lol

Cheers

worntorn · Jul 20, 2014

I bought a US made Magna Power AGM and a really cheap Chinese Scorpion AGM just to see if the more expensive US battery lasts longer. I also bought a couple of no name sealed lead acid types.
All of these batteries are less than a year old, so I can't really recommend any of them. All of them are fine so far. I hope to get four or five years of battery life, tho if the Scorpion does that it is a real bargain.

Glen

kerinorton · Jul 20, 2014

Jerry Doe said:
Thanks for the info

I think I am fu****

Oh well- I wont do that again

whale oil beef hooked. Why not use a regular battery. are they not cheaper, and what the bike is designed for.

Dereck.
ps
Looks like you have outsmarted yourself. Poor bastard

Hobot · Jul 20, 2014

There have been a few recent reports over last year of fiber mat type failures in Cdo's, one on this forum, one on BI list and one a private friend. Please test another fiber mat to see if you get away with it. The way off road away from the grid camper bikers learned early on don't leave home with a Li battery.

lcrken · Jul 20, 2014

Jerry,

I've done the same thing to the Shorai in my MKIII three times now. The latest time was today when my grandson and I took a ride. He was on the Norton, and left the ignition (and the lights) on at my friend's house long enough to completely drain the battery. No lights, no horn, no starter, and not enough juice to kick start it with the old Boyer ignition I'm using. We brought the bike back in a pickup truck, and put it on the Shorai charger I bought when I bought the battery. I've used that charger to bring the battery back from dead twice before, and I'm hoping it will work again. The special charger is $85, but at this point, I think it was worth it. The charger tells you if the battery is over-discharged, and has a charging cycle to bring it back, and a store cycle that prolongs the life of the battery. I've read many places that letting the voltage drop below a certain value will destroy the battery, but that's not been my experience so far. Still learning.

Ken

lcrken · Jul 20, 2014

Jerry,

if you feel like sending the batteries to me, I'll put them on the Shorai charger, and see if they recover. It will charge both 12 volt and 6 volt batteries. Or, you could just drive up and drop them off. I'm up near Camarillo, and usually have some cold beer in the shop fridge. Let me know if that appeals to you, and we can coordinate something.

Ken

CanukNortonNut · Jul 20, 2014

Jerry
Here is something to read on LiFePO4
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757934
For what its worth I have been using lead acid batteries for four years and still going. I use a good battery rubber tray under and behind a rubber pad for the battery side. Vibration is the enemy and you need to curb that. But here is the kicker. Pun intended. :mrgreen: I don't have an electric start. Most batteries don’t like going under 80% too often. they take it once in a while but then these become toast if left that way for too long. BATTERIES NEVER DIE....THEY ARE MURDERED!
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Snorton74 · Jul 20, 2014

That's good to hear Ken. My bike has been on hold for so long I can only assume my unused battery is dead. I'll plug it into the Shorai charger and cross my fingers... I don't usually give up on a product until Matt does and he's comfortable using them in his cafe bikes. You're welcome to borrow my charger if you want Jerry.

Jerry Doe · Jul 20, 2014

Thanks guys. I purchased a "battery tender plus" in pet boys today only to find it it wont charge under 3 volts. I think i will take it back and order the shorai one. I am over it for today and will take a look later. Ken i might take you up on the beer. I am working in thousand oaks for a few weeks and i think thats near you?

I dont know why a normal charger on trickle charge wont work. Seems like it should. I am going to try that tomorrow and will report back.

Jerry Doe · Jul 20, 2014

Thats a great battery thread. Thanks for sharing. Also thanks for the kind offer to borrow the charger. One thing i know is that the 2 lithium batteries paralleled was/is a great solution for my mk3. Even if i did screw them up i will probably save up and buy them again. Incredible starting power. Also, I designed my battery compartment around them. I will never leave ignition on again thats for sure. Oh wait. I think i said that before once...

Hobot · Jul 21, 2014

Hope the Li works out long term but just got another report of AGM type early failures on BI list collector w/o issues on long suffering lead chemistry is most his stored cycles. Gel cells are not same construction of electrolyte space as glass mat cells.

Here's the deal with recovering dead Li cells which mainly means limiting initial voltage over some adequate interval as best Li chargers should sense is the case.
http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8056.pdf

ntst8 · Jul 21, 2014

I managed to fully discharge a Shorai on my ES2 when i kept on riding despite the ammeter showing negative (one alternator wire had parted company).
The shorai charger did recover the battery but it would not hold a charge like it had before. I've gone back to MotoBatt, at least they are cheaper to replace.

Fast Eddie · Jul 21, 2014

I ran a Shorai on a bike with insufficient charge capacity, and it went flat, and it was scrap!

Nevertheless, tempted by their lightness, I have put one on my current Commando, this time though i have uprated the alternator to suit, but its not running yet so cannot report progress.

Ref other options, I fitted an Odyssey to the Vincent, with all the problems I've had with the bike, it has only done 3,000 miles in the 7 years since fitting the battery, despite this, it has never been put on a charger, has never lost its charge, and is still going strong.

So, if you're less worried about weight and more interested in 'fit and forget' robustness, the Odyssey range is well worth a look.

They're probably even better suited to mk3s as they have superior cranking capacity than 'normal' batteries.

Nortiboy · Jul 21, 2014

Jerry Doe said:
I dont know why a normal charger on trickle charge wont work. Seems like it should. I am going to try that tomorrow and will report back.

Tenders usually will not charge a dead flat battery. If its really flat, get some jumper leads and hook it up to your car battery (running) for 10 minutes.

Keep an eye on it while you are doing it. If the battery is stuffed and has an internal short, disconnect before it smokes. Good batteries will get a nice hit and charge quickly.

Shorai - dont do what I did

Similar threads