Shits me to tears

A great Aussie saying my wife uses, usually in regards to something I've done, or not done. But it was something I was saying quite a bit tonight while in the garage.
After a 10 year gap in Norton ownership, and working on Jap and modern bikes, I've taken some basic maintenance procedures for granted. I'd forgotten how annoying servicing the Commando air filter can be. Perhaps I'm just not that bright, but is there any other way to do it without removing the carbies or butchering the rubber boots? Therein lies the root of the problem of course, removing/fitting the Norton twin carbs, not hard, just a royal pain in the ass getting to those inside bolts with our specially made tool (one of very few tools I'd brought with me from Canada). Insert into bolt, 1/8 to 1/4 turn, remove from bolt, re-insert, another 1/8 to 1/4 turn, repeat, repeat, repeat.
It didn't help that I'd gone through the effort of fitting the carbies first, after having removed for rejetting, then tried fitting the air filter. Only to realize what I'd done wrong, with memories flooding back of late night servicing/cursing sessions on the sidewalk in front my old Toronto home, with drunken roommates heckling and girlfriend generally being bored and not holding the flashlight exactly where I needed it. I always thought finally getting my own garage would make things easier.
Ah well, I'm still loving every moment of this long overdue Norton re-ownership. I had a beautiful but brief ride home from work last week along a great twisty road that connects the 'flat' suburbs of Adelaide to my home in the 'hills' suburbs. Belair Rd has a variety of steep hairpins and curves with a section just long and relatively straight enough to pass a bus safely. That few minutes of escape from traffic and lights has already made all the initial prep time in the garage worth it. Now hopefully with the jetting sorted and some experimenting with plugs to cure the fouling, the ratio of garage to road time will start to balance out. Hmm, the weather could be a bit more cooperative too.
I've mapped out my first long(ish) ride, including a stop at a micro-brewery, and can't wait for the first good weekend.

Now that' I've bored you all, here's a tech question. This is just me being paranoid, but reassure me that there are no dangers in using an NGK 'BP...' plugs when it comes to the protruding electrode hitting the piston. I've searched and found a few mentions of people using BP7ES and BP6ES, but just want to verify.

those ngk will work fine
used them on a number of bikes , but for roadwork i find the NY7 more than adequate

lynxnsu said:

those ngk will work fine
used them on a number of bikes , but for roadwork i find the NY7 more than adequate

Click to expand...

I had NY7's in there and fouled them terribly. I may have cured the fouling by going down one size on the needle jet, but haven't found another set of the Champions yet. Will be trialling NGK's BP7ES and BP6ES on the next couple rides. I just wanted to be sure there were no clearance issues with the Norton's pistons using these plugs.

Most commonly used plug is the BP7ES. Many also use the BPR7ES cause they must listen to the radio when riding and they think it keep the black box from connecting to aliens. Extra terrestrials communicate with these EI boxes and are confused with their signal and shut them off. The resistor type plugs block this signal and make it look like an old Lucas analog system of which they are more familiar. Really!
BP7ES's are fine but some will go to BP6ES to help with fouling issues. No piston contact.
Austin Powers once said,
"James Lansdowne Norton was not from this galaxy, that's why Norton's are out of this world, Man. YAH BABY....GO!"

pvisseriii said:

Most commonly used plug is the BP7ES. Many also use the BPR7ES cause they must listen to the radio when riding and they think it keep the black box from connecting to aliens. Extra terrestrials communicate with these EI boxes and are confused with their signal and shut them off. The resistor type plugs block this signal and make it look like an old Lucas analog system of which they are more familiar. Really!

Click to expand...

Oh, we laugh! But once at the Parry Sound Sportbike Rally in Ontario I met a woman, riding a GS750 who seemed nice at first, but the conversation soon turned to unwanted frequencies from "them" interfering with her bike and giving her headaches. So to keep "them" off her trail she used resistor plugs and strongly suggested I do as well. I eventually managed to get away in the most polite manner, as I was there representing a shop and I thought she may be a future customer of "specially engineered" plugs (I'm sure I could come up with some custom packaging and price). Later I saw her holding something up to the sky, as in offering, with both hands, eyes closed and muttering what must've been her thanks to some sort of resistor plug gods. I'm not kidding, I wish I was.

Cowboy Don said:

After a 10 year gap in Norton ownership, and working on Jap and modern bikes, I've taken some basic maintenance procedures for granted. I'd forgotten how annoying servicing the Commando air filter can be. Perhaps I'm just not that bright, but is there any other way to do it without removing the carbies or butchering the rubber boots?

Click to expand...

Undo the two bolts on the airbox. Go to the timing side and pull the front plate towards the carbs, the rubbers will accordion in a bit. Now grab the airfilter and pull it down and to the side and work it out. The mesh will cut your hands and scratch the frame if you're like me, if you're careful it might not. Front and rear plate stays on the bike, but if you need to take off the front plate it's now pretty easy. Installation is the reverse.

I've cured the getting the boots on. Just plaster them in grease, it works!

I have never been able to get it on or off with the carbies on. When I do try, I either cut myself of scratch everything up and still end up taking the carbies off. Youse guys must have a bit more room than mine, I've got at most 1/4" to the carbs from the plate. Probably doesn't help that I've got that return line in the way too.



Dave
69S

Dave,

You have a bit more in the way than my '72....the oil lines from that central tank. I learned quite a while back not to be intimidated by the air filter. Puttin it together, start with the front plate, hoses attached, connecting the air hoses to the carbs. Once that's done push the filter with surround top first from the right side between the front and rear filter plates rotating 90 degrees to move filter into the correct position. Takes a bit of muscle and wiggling, but goes in.

It's not going to help now that I've put a drain for the oil tank breather out of the front of the ham can. But now I don't have oil dripping out the filter, down on top of the GB and after that everywhere else. I'm thinking I'm going to put a catch bottle on that line down between the crank and the GB and eliminate all the dripping oil. Just empty it once in a while. I may try again though, I need to adjust the carb cables, seems my best option is going out the drive side, even if the exhaust is there, the 'S' book says to remove the return line to get it out the timing side.

Dave
69S

I tried spraying the carb boots with silicone lube and it makes air filter replacement waaay easier....was a royal pain in the arse before and the silicone lube will not harm the rubber

Cowboy Don said:

Therein lies the root of the problem of course, removing/fitting the Norton twin carbs, not hard, just a royal pain in the ass getting to those inside bolts with our specially made tool (one of very few tools I'd brought with me from Canada). Insert into bolt, 1/8 to 1/4 turn, remove from bolt, re-insert, another 1/8 to 1/4 turn, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Click to expand...

= Ball ends....on your specially made tool-that is!




Ball ends make the job easier-as the long leg can be inserted and turned with the tool angled over the carb flange. Slacken/tighten with the short leg of the tool and spin the bolt in/out with the long end.


If the bolt is stiff and the tool can't be turned easily using your fingers, a small spanner can be used to turn it.
(Demonstrated on an outer bolt for clarity)

bluto said:

I tried spraying the carb boots with silicone lube and it makes air filter replacement waaay easier....was a royal pain in the arse before and the silicone lube will not harm the rubber

Click to expand...

If you do it my way you never take the boots off.

I could have used that term a few times. Silicone spray and a 1 1/2 inch putty knife pops the rubber boots on and off in no time, unbolt and pull the front plate and then the airfilter and mesh together. Mechanic's gloves save the hands from the mesh but my oil lines aren't in the way like DogT's

Always thought there has to be a better way to get those hex bolts on and off quicker / easier, maybe a cable drive nut driver with a hex end to get them on and in ,then tighen with the modified hex wrench. The ball end model as LAB suggested looks like something that will work better than what I've got. Those hex bolts are something I like to nip up before a ride but can't get at the inner ones with pulling the tank, I check them along with the inner manifold nuts with a dental mirror but that doesn't tell me if they are lose.

Single Mikuni, no air cleaner. Problem (and a few more besides) solved.

I used rubber grease but obviously not enough. From the r/h side with both plates in place, sounds good. I tried it and amost made it but didn't like the idea of scratching my frame, freshly powdercoated you see. If I remove the return oil line, in the way even with the 71 oil tank, Ishould make it a piece of cake. I think this explains why there's gouges on the top of the return oil line, not by me, but it's good to know the previous owner did his servicing.
A friend has offered me his spare single Mikuni. But my Amals have recently ben resleeved and it would be ashame to waste them, plus I prefer the look of the Amals and original airbox on a stock bike. The chrome mesh is just so quintessentially Commando, along with the mufflers (though stolen for many a cafe racer since) and footpeg 'Z' plates. You won't find those features on any other bike, and are part of what make our bikes a little more special than the Triumphs and BSA's of the era. I would say IMHO, but there ain't nothin' humble about it.
I may yet go the Mikuni, but I'll give the Amals a chance for a couple months. If they "shit me to tears", the Mikuni it will be.

Shall we start using SMTT?

Don,

Greetings from Sydney,

Another thing that has worked for me in conjunction with the silicon spray, is a small piece of plastic. The stuff you get from a body shop for spreading bog is what I use. Now just release the rubbers off the carbs and interpose the slippery plastic . Then you can slide the shemozzle out the timing side, but yes the mesh will cut your hand and or remove paint. I have an 850 with the extra plumbing on the back of the air-cleaner plate, this just adds to the degree of difficulty.

Then on the other hand, if you are checking the carb syncronisation, it is damned near easier to just remove the carbs, at the head, remove them off the AC and remove rubbers. Then temporarily replace the carbs and sync them. I use 1/4 ball bearings, so when I put the carbs back on, I stuff rags in the inlet to stop the balls get inside, then slowly raise the throttles and jig with the adjustments until both drop together.

Works for me anyway?

Cheers Richard

It's possible to get a filter element that's a little shorter and cut down the surround so that you get some more room for the boots.
There are also single hole front plates that can be used on Mikunis with a much shorter filter.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/universal.aspx

I took off the 2 long bolts hoping to pull the front of the filter holder up towards the carbs with some cable ties or something, but even if I remove the banjos at the bottom of the carbs and get the fuel line out of the way, I cannot even budge the front section towards the carbs even 1/8", it's tight as you know what, just no give at all. My 69 must be tight there or something is different, I'll just have to stick with taking the carbs off. It's really not that big a problem, especially with the right Allen key. My manifold bolts seem to come out pretty easily, once they are loose about a turn, I can get them out with my fingers by manipulating the carbs around so the bolt doesn't bind. I've never had a problem with them coming loose either.



Dave
69S

DogT said:

I've never had a problem with them coming loose either.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Ride it more, they'll come loose. :mrgreen: