Shims on the kickstart shaft.

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pierodn

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Hi.
I disassembled the gearbox but I've not found the Shims on the kickstart shaft.
Now i need to rebuild it.
I read on other topic that the kickstarted should .005" to .010" free play.
How do I see if it serves the shim?
But the question is where The shim should be mounted: before the inner cover? (from the Oldbritts pictures i cannot understand well)
I would like to be advised on what is best to do.
Thanks.
Piero
 
Shims go onto the kickstart shaft before it's inserted into the inner cover. Beware the radius on the back of the shaft, enlarging the hole a bit assures the shim lats flat against the shoulder.
 
It all depend on what type of bearing was used and what bearing you will be installing.

If a ball layshaft bearing was in there upon disassemble, then no shim would be there.

If you are adding a superblend, to piece roller, then shims will need to be added.

If you choose to go with a good quality ball bearing for this application, the "NO" shims will need to be added.
 
pvisseriii said:
It all depend on what type of bearing was used and what bearing you will be installing.

If a ball layshaft bearing was in there upon disassemble, then no shim would be there.

If you are adding a superblend, to piece roller, then shims will need to be added.

If you choose to go with a good quality ball bearing for this application, the "NO" shims will need to be added.
Click to expand...

Hi,
And thanks.
I will replace the bearing with a standard new from Andover .
What i must to do?.
Regards.
Cio.
Piero
 
Like it was said; ball bearing no shim, roller bearing use shims . The ball bearing locks the layshaft in place, the roller bearing doesn't so you need the shim to keep the layshaft from moving. Here is a pic of where the shim goes
Shims on the kickstart shaft.
 
Here is a side view that shows why the shim inside diameter must be enlarged a bit so to clear the radius on the kickstart shaft.
Shims on the kickstart shaft.
 
Dear Sirs,
thanks for the answers.
But ......, if the standard lay shaft bearing from Andover is )"LAYSHAFT ROLLER BEARING 18337") a roller bearing, why my transmission with a roller beaing dont mount the shim?.
Please, could you tell me a good ball layshaft bearing?.
Regards.
Ciao.
Piero
 
You don't necessarily NEED a shim. You must check the shaft endplay and if excessive then you need to shim. Manufacturing tolerances vary from box to box, so it varies. It also depends on if you use gaskets or not, and what thickness. I used a roller, no gaskets, and had .020 endplay. I added shims to give me .010". Works fine.
Jaydee
 
To contradict some of the above replies a ball bearing will not necessarily "lock" the shaft in place and even if it does there is no guarantee that the end float on the kick start shaft will be correct. All things being equal a ball bearing and a roller bearing should place first gear in the same place when pushed fully home, the shim is to control the engagement of the drive dogs into first gear. For this reason the float should be checked and shimmed regardless of which bearing is used.
 
Mick Hemmings sells the ball bearing (no shim). I'm not sure what A.N. sells, I'm sure they will tell you if you ask.

Dave
69S
 
Pierre, I just changed out a layshaft ball bearing for the Superblend roller. On checking endplay when assembled with gaskets, but no shims in place, there was. 007 endplay, about perfect.
So it is as described above, you will need to check endplay and shim if needed, each box is a little different.

Glen
 
pierodn said:
Thanks to everybody
Click to expand...


You have searched and read all about the infamous layshaft bearing failure? The roller VS ball bearing is a passionate topic, but you are at a crossroads now, easy to go either way.
 
I have only a doubt now.
I bought from Andover the layshaft roller bearing (Item LAYSHAFT ROLLER BEARING 18337
Part Number 067710)
Well, on their web list is written roller but it semms to be a ball!
Maybeor sure i cannot understand from a roller vs. Ball!.
Ciao.
Piero
 
Cheesy said:
To contradict some of the above replies a ball bearing will not necessarily "lock" the shaft in place and even if it does there is no guarantee that the end float on the kick start shaft will be correct. All things being equal a ball bearing and a roller bearing should place first gear in the same place when pushed fully home, the shim is to control the engagement of the drive dogs into first gear. For this reason the float should be checked and shimmed regardless of which bearing is used.
Click to expand...

+1 on all that cheesy said.

Martin
 
pierodn said:
I have only a doubt now.
I bought from Andover the layshaft roller bearing (Item LAYSHAFT ROLLER BEARING 18337
Part Number 067710)
Well, on their web list is written roller but it semms to be a ball!
Click to expand...

The Andover Norton 067710 bearing is normally a roller bearing (NJ203). The AN reference to '18337' I do not understand. The original Norton layshaft ball bearing was part 040100


pierodn said:
sure i cannot understand from a roller vs. Ball!.
Click to expand...

Mick Hemmings explains this @ 24mins, 35 sec. into your NOC gearbox rebuild DVD.

I know Mick says he prefers to use the special ball bearing (FAG 6203 TB) but there's basically nothing wrong with the AN roller bearing.
 
It should be visually apparent if the bearing contains cylindrical shaped rollers or spherical balls.
Jaydee
 
The bearing yet mounted on used lay shaft is Japanese!
The other two new are two FAG, one is made in Portugal bronze color comes from Andover Norton, the other is bought out is made in Germany and is C3 (what is the difference?).
At first glance that seems most consistent old Japanese in the cage.
Which fit?.
Where i can buy a shim set?.
I await suggestions.
Thanks a lot.
Ciao.
Piero

Shims on the kickstart shaft.


Shims on the kickstart shaft.


Shims on the kickstart shaft.
 
swooshdave said:
Those are all ball bearings.
Click to expand...
Ok Sirs,
But i cannot understand!!!!!!
i bought the bronze color Fag from Andover and on the web list is written "NORTON 750 - 1972

Item: LAYSHAFT ROLLER BEARING 18337
Part Number: 067710
Price: £28.80"

My doubts had a right!!!

But, wich i can fit, the new bronz fag or new silver fag C3 (what the difference?)
 
 
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