Salvage/ California dmv

Jerry Doe · Mar 21, 2015

maybe there is a California dmv expert among us:

I have a 1971 roadster with matching numbers and it has the original California license plate on it. It has not been legally on the road since the early 80s. I don't have a bill of sale or any other paperwork.

I really want to restore the bike and knowing me i will spend a lot of time and money on it. My biggest concern is that i get the bike done and the dmv in California will not register it. I went to AAA today and they said they cannot help.

Can anyone tell me what the next step is? Also the best way to approach the dmv when i go in? I dont think i can get it inspected as it is a mess and needs a complete restore. If there is any doubt about getting it registered i suppose i will break it down and sell all the parts, but would prefer to restore and register it instead. I want to be sure about registering before i restore.

Cheers
Jerry

cjandme · Mar 21, 2015

I'm no expert on the dmv out in Cali, but I have seen title services offered on line. I believe they run a check to see if it was ever listed as stolen, etc... costs a couple of hundred. The one that came up when I checked was out of Louisanna.

Jerry Doe · Mar 21, 2015

Very interesting. I will google. Anyone know a link?

htown16 · Mar 21, 2015

A lot of states have cracked down on the title services. I did one through a service a few years ago. Basically you sold them the bike with a bill of sale, they titled it in Alabama and then sold it back to you with an Alabama title. At the time Texas accepted that but I have heard they won't now. The risk is that the title service would own the bike at that point. Most states have a process for a missing title. In Texas they issue a bonded title. You fill out a bunch of paper work and pictures, they do a search to see if it is stolen, if they approve it then you buy a surety bond for the value of the vehicle. If someone claims it in three years, they get the vehicle you get the money from the bond. If no one claims it in three years a clear title is issued. Surely your dmv has some sort of proceedure, lost titles are not that rare. I would start with their website or maybe someone from a classic car club could help.

MikeM · Mar 21, 2015

Jerry Doe said:
maybe there is a California dmv expert among us:

I have a 1971 roadster with matching numbers and it has the original California license plate on it. It has not been legally on the road since the early 80s. I don't have a bill of sale or any other paperwork.

I really want to restore the bike and knowing me i will spend a lot of time and money on it. My biggest concern is that i get the bike done and the dmv in California will not register it. I went to AAA today and they said they cannot help.

Can anyone tell me what the next step is? Also the best way to approach the dmv when i go in? I dont think i can get it inspected as it is a mess and needs a complete restore. If there is any doubt about getting it registered i suppose i will break it down and sell all the parts, but would prefer to restore and register it instead. I want to be sure about registering before i restore.

Cheers
Jerry

My bike had a lost title but I did have the last registration (from about 93) and a bill of sale. I am in Illinois and had no issues at the currency exchange. They did do a lien search.
I would think if you have the last plate they could work with that. Something you will have to research. No bill of sale could work against you.
Good luck and I hope it works out.

concours · Mar 21, 2015

I always do it (title/register) FIRST, before I spend a dime, in case there is an issue. Then you have options. :idea:

Jerry Doe · Mar 21, 2015

I suppose I will go to the DMV and talk to them...

pkeithkelly · Mar 21, 2015

Jerry -

I don't think the term "salvage title" has anything to do with your bike. In California, a vehicle gets a "salvage title" status if it has been damaged and the insurer, instead of paying to repair the vehicle, pays the owner an amount determined by an insurance adjuster and takes title to the vehicle, typically selling it to a salvage yard for parts.

I know this because it was explained to me by my insurance company, whose rule of thumb is that they will not repair a vehicle if the estimated cost of repairs is > 75% of the current market value. If the repair costs are over that threshold, the vehicle is scrapped. However, some of them are repaired and sold with a salvage title, while the DMV also allows for a previously salvaged vehicle to be returned to a "clean" title status as well (inspection required by DMV, and other conditions).

As to how to get the bike titled with no documentation at all- the DMV will have to answer that one.

lcrken · Mar 21, 2015

Hi Jerry,

I've been through this process with the DMV here several times. If you don't know the history of the bike, the first step is to see if it is still in the DMV record system. Your AAA office can do that for you from the VIN. If it hasn't been registered for 7 or 8 years, it should be out of the system, unless there is a lien on it. If there is still a lien recorded against it, you will have to clear that with the lender before DMV will register it. If it is out of the system, you can fill out the forms requesting a new title and registration, stating how and when you acquired the bike, and that it has not been operated or left standing, etc., on a public road since the last registration expired. They will send you to the Highway Patrol to check the VIN to make sure it hasn't been altered (you have to have at least the frame and engine to do this), and check that it wasn't reported stolen. After that, it's back to the DMV, who will issue you the new title and license. I think there is a process to keep the original plate, if you wish, but I don't know the details of that. You will have to do this through the DMV. They don't allow AAA to process this sort of request.

The last one I did this way was in in 2013, with an older Commando that was missing the ID plate on the steering head. I bought a replacement from Old Brits, along with new drive rivets, stamped the VIN number to match the one stamped on the steering neck, along with a date of manufacture based on my estimate, and riveted it on. I told the DMV on a statement of facts form that I had bought the bike back in the '70s as a parts bike for my racing efforts, but never used it, and now wanted to restore it. I told them I'd bought it from a Recycler ad somewhere in the San Fernando valley, but didn't recall exactly where, and had no record of the seller's name, and had lost the registration papers years ago. They took my paperwork and money, sent me to the CHP for inspection, and then issued me a new title, registration, and license plate. They didn't care that the engine and frame numbers didn't match, as long as neither one turned up as stolen.

I've been told people sometimes make up similar stories to keep the DMV happy, but of course I wouldn't ever suggest anything like that.

It's a bit of a hassle, but not really difficult. The problem right now is trying to get an appointment with your local DMV office. The ones around here are backlogged for about a month. They are supposedly trying to catch up, but I think you will probably still have a long wait.

Ken

motoalchemist · Mar 21, 2015

That was the exact status of my old norton before I restored it....Here was my process. The original owner I bought it from had no paperwork. He gave me permission to write a bill of sale when the time came.(fast forward 6 years, bike finished) CA DMV will not register unassembled bikes...so before you can even take it down to the DMW it has to at least be a roller with a engine. When the Pink slip is missing the DMV automatically makes you go to the CHP for a "VIN verification" (YOu will have to get an appointment and its usually 2 to 3 weeks to wait.) SO, first go to DMV, the will fill out a VIN verification form and then you take that form and the bike to the CHP. The CHP only cares about the numbers on the frame and engine...they do a stolen vehicle search, nationwide. If it comes back clean they stamp the form and sign it and send you on your way. THEN back to the DMV who then look at the form and VIN number again. NOTE!! The DMV forbids it employees to climbing into the back of a truck to check VIN number now...(its ridiculous) so you have to unload and walk the bike to the inspection area. One they happy (and it varies day to day and, the DMV employee pool are moody group of assholes) then youll get a title and reg.
Now, as far as keeping your old plate (like I have) you can now use it as a "custom" plate...again it silly but they figured out another way to get $55.00 a year out of its citizens.
Also, DO NOT bring up "salvaged" title...or the DMV will make you get a brake and light inspection...a HUGE pain in the ass!!

You will get frustrated and pissed...thats what they want...they DMV doesnt want old vehicles on the road and they process is pointless and doest really accomplish anything....but Ive done it a few time and am going to have to do it again this year.

but for a Norton...Its worth it.

Jerry Doe · Mar 21, 2015

I contacted the person who i purchased it from and he is doing me a bill of sale. I should have got that before. So thats good news. Sounds like its going to be a pain. The head stock plate is original and worn down where its impossible to see the numbers. I dont think the bike has been apart too much before. Its beginning to sound like a pain. I will go to the dmv and get the process started....luckily i already have a norton, so there is no hurry for me..

gtsun · Mar 22, 2015

That's the best place to start. I too have been throughthis with the DMV in California and as long as I had a Billis sale never had a problem. I'll be busy today until about 3 o'clock but I'll give you a call and come over if you need help after that, Glenn

Dennis C · Mar 22, 2015

When I did mine They offered to have the CHP come to my home to do the vin check.

Mine is a 71 and they did check to see if it was emissions ok for California, on the frame plate

I was the original owner and had the old pink so no problem, it was out of the system so a new registration was issued. They were helpful and gave me a day registration to drive to the DMV for final verification

If it is out of the system you will not have to pay penalty or back fees

call of go on line for an appointment.!!!!

Dennis

N0rt0nelectr@ · Mar 22, 2015

lcrken said:
Hi Jerry,

I've been through this process with the DMV here several times. If you don't know the history of the bike, the first step is to see if it is still in the DMV record system. Your AAA office can do that for you from the VIN. If it hasn't been registered for 7 or 8 years, it should be out of the system, unless there is a lien on it. If there is still a lien recorded against it, you will have to clear that with the lender before DMV will register it. If it is out of the system, you can fill out the forms requesting a new title and registration, stating how and when you acquired the bike, and that it has not been operated or left standing, etc., on a public road since the last registration expired. They will send you to the Highway Patrol to check the VIN to make sure it hasn't been altered (you have to have at least the frame and engine to do this), and check that it wasn't reported stolen. After that, it's back to the DMV, who will issue you the new title and license. I think there is a process to keep the original plate, if you wish, but I don't know the details of that. You will have to do this through the DMV. They don't allow AAA to process this sort of request.

The last one I did this way was in in 2013, with an older Commando that was missing the ID plate on the steering head. I bought a replacement from Old Brits, along with new drive rivets, stamped the VIN number to match the one stamped on the steering neck, along with a date of manufacture based on my estimate, and riveted it on. I told the DMV on a statement of facts form that I had bought the bike back in the '70s as a parts bike for my racing efforts, but never used it, and now wanted to restore it. I told them I'd bought it from a Recycler ad somewhere in the San Fernando valley, but didn't recall exactly where, and had no record of the seller's name, and had lost the registration papers years ago. They took my paperwork and money, sent me to the CHP for inspection, and then issued me a new title, registration, and license plate. They didn't care that the engine and frame numbers didn't match, as long as neither one turned up as stolen.

I've been told people sometimes make up similar stories to keep the DMV happy, but of course I wouldn't ever suggest anything like that.

It's a bit of a hassle, but not really difficult. The problem right now is trying to get an appointment with your local DMV office. The ones around here are backlogged for about a month. They are supposedly trying to catch up, but I think you will probably still have a long wait.

Ken

There is a source vehiclehistory.com where you can do a title search. I did that on a 55 Triumph I bought, the problem with that bike wasn't that it was stolen but that several other vehicles had the same vin number, only 5 digets.

John in Texas

YellaPeril · Mar 22, 2015

I too had zero paperwork from my PO, other than a hand written bill of sale. I recently registered my Norton in the state of Vermont (I don't live in Vermont, I live in New York) via their mail service. All they require is a bill of sale, and a VIN check by an approved agency (I used the local police). Vermont DMV issued me a 'transferable registration", which can then be used to register the bike in NYS, if I choose to. I kinda like the Vermont green plate, so I might just stick with them.

If all else fails, give this a try. It works, and all it costs is about $144.

swooshdave · Mar 22, 2015

It doesn't sound too bad in CA. There are worse places.

Alpenglo · Mar 23, 2015

Hi Jerry,
I'm in NorCal and have had good success gaining title from DMV on projects that had little if any DMV paperwork.
There is nothing wrong with that, that is life. They just have a process that needs to be followed.

If your bike came from out of state you would need a title service and would stop here and contact the title service company.
Since you have a CA plate and the previous owner is in CA it should not be a problem.

Go on-line to DMV and download the Bill of Sale form (form 135) and the Application for Title or Registration (form 343).

Go to DMV and ask for a Statement of Facts form. This form is filled out by the person you got the bike from along with the Bill of Sale. This form is not available on the DMV website(I have no idea why). If DMV gives you form 256, that is the wrong one! Ask for the SoF form that the previous owner fills out that describes how he came into possession of the vehicle. The DMV just wants to see a trail of custody. If the fellow owned it for 20-years and lost the paperwork, so be it.

Have the previous owner fill out the Bill of Sale and the Statement of Facts.

Once you have the above three forms completed, go to CHP to have a VIN verification. They provide their own form, nothing for you to fill out. The bike needs to be a motorcycle with the serial numbers visible. I usually clean the stampings as best I can and use either chalk or a black marker to make the numbers stand out.
Verify that the numbers written by CHP on the verification form match, sometimes they make mistakes. We are all human. It also might help if the gearbox serial number is visible (if it's a triple matching numbers machine) when the chassis tag is a bit worn. Make it as easy on the officer as you can.

Then go to DMV with these four forms completed and your checkbook and you should be good to go.
I usually make an appointment on-line with DMV about 3-weeks out and that gives me time to get the above done if all goes well. If not you can always reschedule it.

Lastly, I never start the project until the DMV documentation is in order.

Good luck,

Peter

Alpenglo · Mar 23, 2015

Jerry,
One more thing. If there is a CA license plate, DMV may also require an application for duplicate title.
When you are at DMV getting the SoF, ask about that also.
I think it's form 227 and is available on-line.

Peter

Salvage/ California dmv

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