Roadholder external springs

Johnnymac · Nov 19, 2014

Hi Guys,

I really like the look of the external springs on Norton Roadholders. Do they actually do anything or are they for decoration only? Where would one buy them?

L.A.B. · Nov 19, 2014

Johnnymac said:
Do they actually do anything or are they for decoration only?

Yes they are 'proper' springs! (so you'd need to remove the internal springs if you were to fit them)

http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/buy/external ... e_2304.htm

Hobot · Nov 19, 2014

Maybe I can be set straight on terms. Is prim different than proper?

mschmitz57 · Nov 19, 2014

I installed them on my Atlas Cafe Racer.
I bought the sweet progressive wound springs and nifty alloy oil seal holders from Clubman Racing (good luck getting them to answer the phone).
I also bought the oil seal installation tool ($21) from Clubman so you don't have to bugger-up the alloy holders with a pipe wrench.
http://www.clubmanracing.com/suspensionforksnorton.php

SteveA · Nov 20, 2014

hobot said:
Maybe I can be set straight on terms. Is prim different than proper?

We normally say 'all prim and proper' but this in itself is an affectation, one is an exageration of the other...

prim (prĭm)

adj. Precise or proper to the point of affectation; excessively decorous.

prop•er (prŏpˈər)

adj. Characterized by appropriateness or suitability; fitting: the proper knife for cutting bread; not a proper moment for a joke.

Johnnymac · Nov 20, 2014

Thanks guys!

mschmitz57 · Nov 20, 2014

"Beauty, like supreme dominion, Is but supported by opinion" - (Ben Franklin said that)

Nater_Potater · Nov 20, 2014

mschmitz57 said:

Your springs are on upside down. The tighter-wound coils should go against the "fixed" end, whether that be the triple tree, or against the head in the case of valve springs. 'sorry about that...

mschmitz57 · Nov 20, 2014

Nater_Potater said:
Your springs are on upside down. The tighter-wound coils should go against the "fixed" end, whether that be the triple tree, or against the head in the case of valve springs. 'sorry about that...

Nope, Not according to the Progressive Suspension installation instructions (and they make the springs).

http://www.progressivesuspension.com/pd ... s/3055.pdf

I quote:

" 3. Install your new fork springs into the forks. Mechanically, it
makes no difference which way the springs are installed.
Some manuals will state; install the spring with the close
wound end towards the bottom. This is done because
sometimes there will be less spring noise. The springs will perform
exactly the same regardless of which direction they are placed."

daveparry · Nov 21, 2014

I really can't see any reason why it would make any difference which way up they're fitted.

john robert bould · Nov 21, 2014

Correct, the spring will react just the same ,what ever. after all is the bike compressing the spring down..or the fork compressing the spring up-wards? :roll:

L.A.B. · Nov 21, 2014

john robert bould said:
Correct, the spring will react just the same ,what ever. after all is the bike compressing the spring down..or the fork compressing the spring up-wards? :roll:

What Phil Pick said over on TOL some time ago.

B#ll#cks to Progressive Suspensions fitting instructions. If a coil spring has a 'fixed' and a 'moving' end the 'fixed' end should always be the more closely packed end of the spring.
It's all to do with the weight of the spring that is being moved. The less spring being moved axially the better. 'Unsprung weight' and all that.
Having said that, if progressive or multi-rate coil springs are used on exposed rear suspensions they do look 'odd' if they are fitted in an 'engieeringly correct' manner.
Thed forces experienced by, and developed by the spring, do not change with respect to the orientation of the spring. It's all just down to unsprung weight. On a suspension there will be no effective difference and the moving mass change (when compared to the fork/wheel/discs/calipers) is tiny.

Philip

mschmitz57 · Nov 21, 2014

And who is Phil Pick?

L.A.B. · Nov 21, 2014

mschmitz57 said:
And who is Phil Pick?

Who is Phil Pick? :shock: :? (builder, tuner, racer, supplier of standard and peerformance parts and noted expert on all things BSA and Triumph Triple) .

http://www.triples.co.uk/

mschmitz57 said:
(and why can't he spell?)

Dunno, ask him?

mschmitz57 · Nov 21, 2014

With all due respect to Mr. Pick, I'll go with the manufacturers recommendation.

texasSlick · Nov 21, 2014

B#ll#cks to Progressive Suspensions fitting instructions. If a coil spring has a 'fixed' and a 'moving' end the 'fixed' end should always be the more closely packed end of the spring.
It's all to do with the weight of the spring that is being moved. The less spring being moved axially the better. 'Unsprung weight' and all that.
Having said that, if progressive or multi-rate coil springs are used on exposed rear suspensions they do look 'odd' if they are fitted in an 'engieeringly correct' manner.
Thed forces experienced by, and developed by the spring, do not change with respect to the orientation of the spring. It's all just down to unsprung weight. On a suspension there will be no effective difference and the moving mass change (when compared to the fork/wheel/discs/calipers) is tiny.

Philip

Two points are important in the above:

1) the less spring mass moved axially, the better
2) (summarizing the last sentence) the difference is tiny

Mount them either way to please yourself....the difference is tiny.

As for me, I'll keep my springs internal....easier to clean that way and more aerodynamic as well, but at legal road speeds, that difference is tiny too.

Slick

L.A.B. · Nov 22, 2014

mschmitz57 said:
With all due respect to Mr. Pick, I'll go with the manufacturers recommendation.

However, their off road fork spring instructions say:
http://www.progressivesuspension.com/pd ... reload.pdf

5. With the front wheel off the ground, forks fully extended, install
your new Progressive Suspension® Fork Springs with the close
wound coils up..........

Hagon instructions
http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/common/pa ... Code=setup

Fully extend legs to end of travel and replace springs with the tight coils to the top.

mschmitz57 · Nov 22, 2014

Ahh, well that clears things up.
Soooo... explain to me again why the reverse is true when it applies to progressive rear springs?

http://www.accessnorton.com/

X-file · Nov 22, 2014

When the tightly wound end of the spring becomes compressed, it becomes a solid mass.
If that's on the slider end of the spring, you have increased unsprung mass.
It always better to have less unsprung mass, and more sprung mass is not a problem.

Tightly wound coils to the top will perform better.

mschmitz57 · Nov 22, 2014

OK, this is just weird...

Roadholder external springs

Johnnymac

L.A.B.

Moderator

Hobot

mschmitz57

SteveA

Johnnymac

mschmitz57

Nater_Potater

mschmitz57

daveparry

john robert bould

L.A.B.

Moderator

mschmitz57

L.A.B.

Moderator

mschmitz57

texasSlick

L.A.B.

Moderator

mschmitz57

X-file

mschmitz57

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