Primary rattle & knock

P

Precisionbob

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May 25, 2015
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I've only had my USA SE for a week and have just over 300 miles on the clock. I had this bike on order for 51 months so was very excited to finally receive it. From the first start up at the dealers I was concerned about the rattle from the primary - the dealer convinced me to just put the break-in miles on and things should quiet down, and order some of his mufflers so the motor could breathe (or maybe to hide the noise?). However, it's just getting worse, and when everything gets hot after 30 or so miles of riding, it sounds like a knock. It's much worse with the clutch lever released and spinning the mainshaft, so my concern is that maybe it's in the gearbox rather than the clutch. If it was on one of my other bikes, I'd say it sounds like something was about to go! Bike runs strong and seems quiet and normal above about 3k revs, but then there is too much noise to hear much. If I wasn't 700 miles from the dealer I'd take it in, but for now I'm on my own. I'm an experienced rider and owner of several bikes both old and modern, so I am not paranoid. Any ideas or thoughts from anyone?
 
It does tend to quiet down as it breaks in. Would also recommend the after-market pipes, both for performance and sound. Also, the remap will help with the cold start and any knocking or pinging as it runs very lean with the stock maps.

Where are you located?
 
Precisionbob said:
I've only had my USA SE for a week and have just over 300 miles on the clock. I had this bike on order for 51 months so was very excited to finally receive it. From the first start up at the dealers I was concerned about the rattle from the primary - the dealer convinced me to just put the break-in miles on and things should quiet down, and order some of his mufflers so the motor could breathe (or maybe to hide the noise?). However, it's just getting worse, and when everything gets hot after 30 or so miles of riding, it sounds like a knock. It's much worse with the clutch lever released and spinning the mainshaft, so my concern is that maybe it's in the gearbox rather than the clutch. If it was on one of my other bikes, I'd say it sounds like something was about to go! Bike runs strong and seems quiet and normal above about 3k revs, but then there is too much noise to hear much. If I wasn't 700 miles from the dealer I'd take it in, but for now I'm on my own. I'm an experienced rider and owner of several bikes both old and modern, so I am not paranoid. Any ideas or thoughts from anyone?
Click to expand...


Because it is so new I doubt it's the ring gear but there is a small chance. Could also be the BALANCE GEAR TENSION SPRING. These can be over stretched so easily from the factory, doesn't take much. OR.... it's just normal and you're not used to it. It does get better after 500 miles and even better after 1000 miles. and EVEN BETTER WITH A LOUD EXHAUST to mask it....... :mrgreen:
 
DBono said:
It does tend to quiet down as it breaks in. Would also recommend the after-market pipes, both for performance and sound. Also, the remap will help with the cold start and any knocking or pinging as it runs very lean with the stock maps.

Where are you located?
Click to expand...

I live in Utah - 6200 feet elevation. I bought the bike in So Cal. It does appear to run lean, based on the header pipes bluing up pretty seriously. I do plan on taking it back to So Cal after break-in for the remap and mufflers. I've mainly been concerned that something more serious is going on, but I also hate to be embarrassed by the rattling sound coming out of such a beautiful bike! I'm sure it's the only one in the state, so I'm getting attention, whether I want it or not.
 
Yes it is Noisy, South Bay has JB extreme pressure treatment additive for the transmission. I removed 2 1/2 oz. of oil from my transmission and added the treatment, it grew quieter. I renewed it at the 2000 mile oil change. it will get better. just wait. The pipes add a lot to the performance and sound.
 
As one owner across the pond said...."sound like a bucket of nails". So true. Mine is fairly quiet now with the DS pipes, remap, 1900 miles and of course, lets not forget, my new tranny. Noisy as hell when I first got it. Still has some issues, but for now, I'm really wailing on it and having a blast. I HATE that feeling of being on needles waiting for the next thing to happen, so I'm trying not to think about it by getting out there as much as I can. Almost trying to provoke it. Enjoy the bike. It fills every niche I've wanted by being the absolute perfect balance of old school grunt and style with newer performance.
 
Britfan60 said:
As one owner across the pond said...."sound like a bucket of nails". So true. Mine is fairly quiet now with the DS pipes, remap, 1900 miles and of course, lets not forget, my new tranny. Noisy as hell when I first got it. Still has some issues, but for now, I'm really wailing on it and having a blast. I HATE that feeling of being on needles waiting for the next thing to happen, so I'm trying not to think about it by getting out there as much as I can. Almost trying to provoke it. Enjoy the bike. It fills every niche I've wanted by being the absolute perfect balance of old school grunt and style with newer performance.
Click to expand...

I AGREE! :mrgreen:
 
Precisionbob is being just a little modest when he says he has a "few" vintage and newer bikes. You should see his Egli style Vincent. Talk about eye candy. He's no longer the only 961 owner in Utah, I just bought the red 961 off of Ebay after seeing his 961 in the flesh! Yeah, it sounds at idle like a bucket of bolts, but I figured we can mitigate that, and if not, I'll just sit back and gaze at it!
 
Congratulations on buying that red one on ebay. I was watching it, wondering what it would go for. I would like to hear what precisionbob thinks of the bike now. Mine is purring like a kitten wildcat now. Still has that oil leak from the crankcase seam, and I'll address that towards the end of the season. The cold starts are much better now too. I have 2300 on the clock now and it gets better and better everytime. And believe me.....I've done my share of bitching!
 
Mines now 9 months old, 3000 miles, purring like a kitten and pulling like a train. love it to bits.....
 
Precisionbob said:
DBono said:
It does tend to quiet down as it breaks in. Would also recommend the after-market pipes, both for performance and sound. Also, the remap will help with the cold start and any knocking or pinging as it runs very lean with the stock maps.

Where are you located?
Click to expand...

I live in Utah - 6200 feet elevation. I bought the bike in So Cal. It does appear to run lean, based on the header pipes bluing up pretty seriously. I do plan on taking it back to So Cal after break-in for the remap and mufflers. I've mainly been concerned that something more serious is going on, but I also hate to be embarrassed by the rattling sound coming out of such a beautiful bike! I'm sure it's the only one in the state, so I'm getting attention, whether I want it or not.
Click to expand...

Precisionbob

I own 2 961's First has the DT pipes from South Bay and remap. The second SF, I bought Motad (Norton Factory Units) from Krazy Horse in London (Dozer gave me the people to talk to) These are Short / Loud pipes and they sound so much better than the DT's. And total cost was $100 less than the South Bay DT's. Both totals included the decat X pipe and shipping.
 

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Britfan60 said:
Congratulations on buying that red one on ebay. I was watching it, wondering what it would go for. I would like to hear what precisionbob thinks of the bike now. Mine is purring like a kitten wildcat now. Still has that oil leak from the crankcase seam, and I'll address that towards the end of the season. The cold starts are much better now too. I have 2300 on the clock now and it gets better and better everytime. And believe me.....I've done my share of bitching!
Click to expand...
precisionbob here with an update, as requested: I've got about 900 miles on the bike now and consider it broken in. Noise at idle is about the same - tolerable with the clutch lever pulled in, and very irritating with it released in neutral. I've replaced the gear oil with the addition of the JB gear oil additive mentioned in this string, and I just finished installing the SBN X-Pipe and mufflers - very nice looking and well made gear. I'm waiting for the remapped ECU to come back from South Bay and I'll see what it sounds like with the new exhaust. I'm hoping for enough "dark noise" to drown out the irritating rattle at idle - at speed all I hear with the factory pipes is the airbox sucking air, but I'm sure that will soon be augmented with the SBN upgrades. The bike does run great at speed and is very nice on the favorite local canyon roads here in Summit County, Utah. I guess there will be two of us spooking the deer soon, with the impending arrival of my friend's red Sport.
 
Precisionbob said:
Britfan60 said:
Congratulations on buying that red one on ebay. I was watching it, wondering what it would go for. I would like to hear what precisionbob thinks of the bike now. Mine is purring like a kitten wildcat now. Still has that oil leak from the crankcase seam, and I'll address that towards the end of the season. The cold starts are much better now too. I have 2300 on the clock now and it gets better and better everytime. And believe me.....I've done my share of bitching!
Click to expand...
precisionbob here with an update, as requested: I've got about 900 miles on the bike now and consider it broken in. Noise at idle is about the same - tolerable with the clutch lever pulled in, and very irritating with it released in neutral. I've replaced the gear oil with the addition of the JB gear oil additive mentioned in this string, and I just finished installing the SBN X-Pipe and mufflers - very nice looking and well made gear. I'm waiting for the remapped ECU to come back from South Bay and I'll see what it sounds like with the new exhaust. I'm hoping for enough "dark noise" to drown out the irritating rattle at idle - at speed all I hear with the factory pipes is the airbox sucking air, but I'm sure that will soon be augmented with the SBN upgrades. The bike does run great at speed and is very nice on the favorite local canyon roads here in Summit County, Utah. I guess there will be two of us spooking the deer soon, with the impending arrival of my friend's red Sport.
Click to expand...
Final update: Just finished my first canyon ride after installing the SBN mufflers and X-pipe, with the ECU remapped with the #90 map. Result: I can no longer hear ANY rattles or knocks - in fact, I can't hear anything while riding except the roar of the exhaust! And I mean ROAR!! Loudest bike in my stable for sure, and my Egli is pretty loud. I think it's because these SBN exhausts slant steeply upward - they are exactly parallel to the rear piece of the frame triangle, and I guess that directs the sound more into my helmet than I'm used to. So if a noise can't be heard, does that mean it isn't there? Or does it just mean it doesn't matter? 1000 miles on the odo, new and LOUD sound, great running bike, so life is good. I've got to get some earplugs, though.
 
PrecisionBob,

The SBN exhaust has a bitchin sound and look for sure. Hope you enjoy them.
Please keep a careful look at your drive chain/silencer clearance as you put on miles.
The SBN silencers are quite close to the chain. Several owners including myself have the same exhaust and have noticed a clearance issue.

Regards.
 
PB.

The engine does quiet down a bit with the remap and wear. I put the SBN pipes on before I even heard it without them and it still sounded like a pail of nails. After a thousand miles and the remap, it engine itself, not from the exhaust, quieted down. Still sounds a little mechanical, but no more than any other air cooled twin. #90 remap, huh? Hmmmm....wonder what us #77 guys are missing. Glad you like it. As for the chain, my chain side exhaust pipe is mounted a little lower than the shift side. Fairly noticeable if you are riding behind me. I have roughly 3/8 inch clearance. Today, another biker mentioned clearance. Thought it was extremely close. I actually tried to manually push the chain down to meet the exhaust and couldn't, so I'm satisfied. I've got a smidge more slack in the chain right not than I would like so I'm due for an adjustment, but still in the safety zone. Get out there and ride.
 
And it has BPHORSEGUY. It was more like 9/16 to 3/4" when new, now about 3/8-1/2". Still not touching. No marks on the pipe at all. How about yours? Any rubbing?
 
I have the SBN Dominator Sport silencers which are a little louder then the Dominator Torquers which most on hear seem to have. I retained the stock mid pipe so my clearance is stock and not an issue!

When I said the clearance changes as you compress the rear shocks I meant sitting on the bike instead of static. The more load you put on the suspension the more clearance you have. I suspect that those who have an issue are hitting over bumps as the suspension unloads and rebounds!
 
PrecisionBob,

I just noticed in a older post that you had a #90 map installed when the SBN exhaust was installed.
Was that a special SBN map for their exhaust system that was installed?
I haven't heard of a factory #90 map.
 

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