PowerArc Anomaly "Update"

During my recent trials with carb issues, I have noticed some problems with starting. I rarely have had issue with excessive and prolonged kick starting events, not to mention kickbacks.

Putting the carbs aside I will focus on the ignition having had a SureFire and deciding to try the PowerArc.

Setup was a cinch and has been great until I started suffering from an occasional kick back and bouts of 6 to 10 kicks to get it started. Because I have rearsets, I occasionally hit the shifter peddle with my shin. Having to kick excessively, I have a scab on my shin bone.

Anyhow, I decided to check the strobe timing to troubleshoot possible causes. I found that there was a 5 to 7 degree different from left to right. This is the anomaly. I rechecked static timing and it was still right on. Also having to kick so much, kick back have been numorous. I had hoped that I received a unit with the update. Maybe something else has gone bad with it.

Another odd thing is that the PowerArc wab site shows how the three spark per stroke shows such a steady mark under a timing light. I did not find this to be true either.

My conclusion is that something has gone wrong in the program or something within the unit. This was somewhat confirmed when upon reinstalling the Pazon surefire, it fired first kick, idled smooth and ran like a Swiss watch.

I will send the Powerarc back to Fred and see what he says. He’ll make right.

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

I have tried 5 diff . EI on my bikes , more out of curiosity then nessecity .
But a little research and a few mails with OldBritts convinced me NEVER to use a PowerArc , not even for free .
Multispark for a Commando engine is pure nonsense , and I don't care so much for a " you're too stupid to understand " attitude ..

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

keep us updated, i'm still trying to get mine "just right" do you know when checking with a strobe what the timing should be with the power arch? i didn't see any mention of that in the instructions

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

ludwig said:

I have tried 5 diff . EI on my bikes , more out of curiosity then nessecity .
But a little research and a few mails with OldBritts convinced me NEVER to use a PowerArc , not even for free .
Multispark for a Commando engine is pure nonsense , and I don't care so much for a " you're too stupid to understand " attitude ..

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out of curiosity since you've used so many on the same bike, which did you like the best?

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

After speaking with Fred Eaton, he said there was no anomaly and that I had a unit without the firmware update. When I tried to reiterate about the strobe timing being different from left to right, he said this is normal and that I would need an oscilloscope to accurately read the advance curves due to the three sparks per compression stroke.

This tells me that strobe timing is not an option for normal people and the Power Arc unit.

He received my unit and it is on its return trip to me. As with the Amals, I will give it another go.

Kevbo82, there are no timing number you, I, or anyone else to strobe. These values are all set in the programming and it is totally dependent on how accurate you find TDC and getting the encoder jjjuuusssstttt right.. I found it to be a real bitch tightening the center nut and watching the encoder wheel move out of range.

Ludwig, your comments are both enlightening and discouraging. If you care to go into more detail, I would love to read it. I certainly understand the whole "curiosity rather than necessity" concept.

If I sell the Power Arc I can get 2 more Surefire's for the shelf but that doesn't make much sense either cause I still have 4 year under their 7 year warrantee on the one that I have.

Like I said, I will give it another go unless Ludwig talks me out of it, and have the Surefire (good name for it) waiting in the wings.

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

pvisseriii said:

After speaking with Fred Eaton, he said there was no anomaly and that I had a unit without the firmware update. When I tried to reiterate about the strobe timing being different from left to right, he said this is normal and that I would need an oscilloscope to accurately read the advance curves due to the three sparks per compression stroke.

This tells me that strobe timing is not an option for normal people and the Power Arc unit.

He received my unit and it is on its return trip to me. As with the Amals, I will give it another go.

Kevbo82, there are no timing number you, I, or anyone else to strobe. These values are all set in the programming and it is totally dependent on how accurate you find TDC and getting the encoder jjjuuusssstttt right.. I found it to be a real bitch tightening the center nut and watching the encoder wheel move out of range.

Ludwig, your comments are both enlightening and discouraging. If you care to go into more detail, I would love to read it. I certainly understand the whole "curiosity rather than necessity" concept.

If I sell the Power Arc I can get 2 more Surefire's for the shelf but that doesn't make much sense either cause I still have 4 year under their 7 year warrantee on the one that I have.

Like I said, I will give it another go unless Ludwig talks me out of it, and have the Surefire (good name for it) waiting in the wings.

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yeah i didn't have much luck trying to check things with a light. I hear ya trying to get the thing locked down just right, i've tinkered with it a lot and still think i'm a tad off. it's almost like you have to stop JUST before where you want it to be set and then lock it down so that little bit of movement gets you in the spot.

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This report is disconcerting to me and hope that's because no one reporting here understands the ignition system or how to monitor which of the 3 sparks with a regular time light. Ms Peel power plant configuration will not be possible w/o 'her' anti detonation PowerArc nor some over done big Twins on mere 87 pump gas. I have spoken directly with the designer a number of time and suggest that frustrated owners do so too. These need programing for basic time curve plus the spacing of each of the 3 sparks to take advantage of the flame kernal turbulence relighting.

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I do not know if this is good or bad, but there is definite difference in the "POP" that come from the Power Arc than form other EI units, and it's not a weakening type of thing either.

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so interesting enough, i think i agree with your anomaly. :shock:

i started messing with mine again today, trying to get things JUST right, on the ride side i noticed a slight hiccup at idle, it's always been there, i've tried and tried to do away with it but nothing seems to help. When i originally setup the power arch, i set the left hand side to TDC and set the encoder. So today i tried the right hand side, set it as close to TDC as i could get, set the encoder wheel. started up, and wouldn't you know, the hiccup switched sides! now the right side idles smooth and perfect and the left side has the miss. i thought maybe i accidentally switched plugs and maybe a plug was the problem, so i switched the plugs around to see if the problem would move with the plugs but it didn't. It seems whatever side of the motor i DON'T set to TDC when setting the power arch is a bit off. Sounds a lot like what you were seeing with the strobe (if the strobe is right or not...) forget the strobe and oscilloscopes, i can hear and feel this difference.

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and for the record mine does have the firmware update

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

I use a Silent Hektik ignition on one of my airheads, this also boasts of "triple Spark".

It works very well and there are no problems checking the timing with a strobe.

Charles

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

kevbo82 said:

and for the record mine does have the firmware update

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I purchase mine back in January and I know the update was available so I was a little miffed when Fred said i needed it.
Do you ever have kickback? Do you have a 1 or 2 kick start up or do you have times when it take 5 to 10 kicks to start?

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

I never installed mine pre firmware update. About a week before I was ready to install it I saw Kenny Cummings post on here about the update and sent it to Fred to update before I installed it, so can't speak to any change in kickback. Mine will start 1st or 2nd kick when warm or recently run (say in the past few hours) but when it's cold, no it takes a good 4-5 kicks. My big problem right now is things seem too rich (black plugs, smoke from tail pipes when I give it gas) and I can't seem to cure it. Which is why I keep fooling with the ignition trying to find the problem. Last time I rode the bike I had my first problem while riding, gave it gas in 3rd gear going up a steep hill around 60mph and it started missing until I left off and shifted to 4th which is making me suspect ignition more

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

chasbmw said:

I use a Silent Hektik ignition on one of my airheads, this also boasts of "triple Spark".

It works very well and there are no problems checking the timing with a strobe.

Charles

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Thank you Charles for you contribution.
Something does not seem right here. I recheck the PowerArc website and they show how marvelously stable the strobe show the timing mark. If I am going to continue to use this, I better get the interface and software. Something seem amiss in the programming.
http://www.powerarc.com/techgen.htm

I wish ludwig would come back with some details.
Hobot, is there any light you can shed on this?
Any other PowerArc user care to offer their input?

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I also noticed that on their website. I talked to the guy at power arch once. I see his site says never ever use spiral wires then when I purchased the kit from old britts it came with spiral core wires. So I called and asked if they were OK to use and his response was "yeah, Fred gets those wires from me" which left me a bit confused. I'm new to norton's and motorcycles in general so at first I would write problems off as me learning, but at some point I have to wonder if its me or not? I've been thinking o taking the bike to my local Brit bike shop who rebuilt my motor and paying him to take an hour to go over the carbs and ignition and tell me if I'm missing something

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Regarding the three sparks, why is Tri-Spark so named? Does it have 3 sparks too? It times just fine with a light.
Jaydee

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

heres a quick video of the popping on mine that has now moved to the left hand side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftVHOTHqky0

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

jaydee75 said:

why is Tri-Spark so named?

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Because the Tri-Spark ignition system was originally developed for BSA and Triumph triples.

Ignitions for twins came later.

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

Another comment from my airhead experiance, most digital electronic ignitions are sensitive to the types of coils used and also require resistor plug caps of around 5000 ohms, the commonly foundNGK plug caps seem to work well. The resistor plug caps suppress the electrical interference from the plugs that can upset the microprocessors found in digital ignitions.

I hope that this helps

Charles

Re: PowerArc Anomaly

Well I have come to the conclusion that there is no anomaly, it’s just the way they are.

After sending mine back to get re-flashed, and having another one sent right from the company in Iowa, I have tried everything I can think of, white wire on, white wire off, TDC on the left, TDC on the right (changing seats on the Titanic) I think that this unit is not right for me.

I am not going to bash and I cannot say that there is anything wrong or right with them, but simply that they weren’t right for me. I spoke with many people and have read many comments and feel that I am certainly not alone in my plight.

Here are some aspects that seem to stick out the most. Multi spark ignitions may be good for some things like lean burning conditions but not for Norton where richness is the desired tendency. Ignition curves for a Norton in a multi spark scenario are not easy to produce and I feel have not yet been mastered Optical sensors can easily loose sink if simply by not following a prescribe sequence when starting, if end play is a little out of spec or if the bushing area little worn.

My bike ran like crap, rough, limpy, cutting out, and hard starting. I put the old system back in and all was right which included Instant starting smooth idle even with a hotter cam and steady running throughout the ranges.

I won’t say that this system will not work for others and that those involve have not been helpful
One issue I have to revisit is that when I tried to get the Premiers sorted out, I was running the PowerArc. This sort of void the previous outcome which wasn’t all that bad. I put the Amals on for the third time this afternoon after my trials and tribulation. Although I could not get out for trial run, it started with one kick and idled like a dream. This was setup beforehand and saved when previously removed.

Again, I am not here to bash or discredit but only to post a follow up report.