Peg pogo polo plop

There is madness in my approach to riding to learn to out race crashing but like they say in skiing-skating sports, if ya ain't falling ya ain't really trying. I just want to learn what I can and can't get away with on ordinary Combat to hand with Wesley and dodge hazards and recovery form those I can't dodge. One fun thing I did at LOP which drought lowered to expose a beach run on rough half sand haft grass surface i'd never encountered before so ran across it slightly skewing this way and that standing on pegs. No sweat till ran out of beach into the old shore level drop off-wash out that almost tossed my cookies in front of crowd turned to sound of working Commando. Later when almost full dark tried it but couldn't see surface texture well enough so only made one pass in bee line, which Wes said looked cool to see a rider profile passing line of 150 tiki torches along waters edge, like Arab Sheik on stallion runing though desert camp. On first run -my run off took me beyond the cleared area where I found patches of soft deep sand about 10'x10' so played half ass dounghnuts there with run outs saved by running up the bank then roll back, till I scared up a moccasin between the tires that made a bee line to water with fisherman right there so I yelled out and he thanked me as I chased it into water, then quaundry to try to power around in the muddy soft surface or walk it out, huh, Varoom worked just fine.

Ok here's point of the post, learning lean limits so no more fear taking on the worse the Ozarks offers, plus keeping up with Wes when he's feeling his oats.
Do not for one instant think this has any relation to what i pull off on Ms Peel, No Sir this is just working up to regular Commando corner cripple states like other corner cripples. But don't get me wrong I now find I can fling nice turns as fast as regular sports bikes in the tights on Trixie.


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgq3VcM0FWw&feature=player_embedded[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qh3RX-gGJw&feature=player_embedded[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sq-Z6J4VvE&feature=player_embedded[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI9BpqgDejs&feature=player_embedded[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI9BpqgDejs&feature=player_embedded[/video]







LMAO, hope you do too on my expense.

:lol: Glad you're alright :lol:

"Throw yourself at the ground and hit."

Will you please stop doing that.
It hurts me to watch.
Nice photography.

"Throw yourself at the ground and hit."

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LOL! The "miss" of my motto only applies to me on Ms Peel not on factory kind.

I was not trying for fastest way around just full lean to light scratching sound so by ear I followed road dip down but failed to realize I had to lift back up as grade did till too late. Wes saw and explained my "error" which matched what I sensed too. I know it don't look much a lean and it ain't compared to other bikes but try it your self and see how far over it feels on a regular C'do.

The non crash zooms arounds were as fast as I'll ever do em on regular C'do in public. Four score years ago I rode Trixie into hinged effects a number of ways to refresh myself on what I learned not to ever do on pre-Ms Peel the scary first time lucked out novice barely recovery way.

I want to master the slower stunt like antics on a regular un-rear linked C'do so more to come on Trixie video I ain't ever seen demo'd so far, nor ever done on purpose but have in panic attacks.

hobot said:

I was not trying for fastest way around just full lean to light scratching sound so by ear I followed road dip down but failed to realize I had to lift back up as grade did till too late. Wes saw and explained my "error" which matched what I sensed too. I know it don't look much a lean and it ain't compared to other bikes but try it your self and see how far over it feels on a regular C'do.

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Sunday afternoon after working on a long neglected and rather messy Model T project I treated myself to a ride on the rapidly completing '72 Commando. It had turned me into a pedestrian the last time out and I wanted to spend some time "testing" it to see how it would go. The Norton is so much like home cooking that it is very easy to get carried away. Twice that evening I ground something on left hand turns at what I considered to be rather mild lean angles, something even one of the big cruisers should have been able to negotiate.

Happily I didn't fall down, but I can see how overcooking the corner and needing to lean further to stay on the road could have dished me. Are you going to do anything to increase the lean angle? What can you do?

Vintage Paul

hudson29 said:

hobot said:

Happily I didn't fall down, but I can see how overcooking the corner and needing to lean further to stay on the road could have dished me. Are you going to do anything to increase the lean angle? What can you do?

Vintage Paul

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Study the riding styles of Kenny Roberts, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey, Freddie Spencer and other world F1 Riders. They all shift their body weight to the inside offsetting the bike weight. This allows the bike's lean angle to be less at same speed. This was considered a "radical" technique when it first appeared on the world F1M circuits in the early 70's particularly when compared to the staid, stay in one place styles of Giaccomo Agostini, Barry Sheene, Mike Hailwood, Jarno Sarrinen and other more "classic" European road racers.

+1 for - "Will you please stop doing that. It hurts me to watch." also glad you're okay. Cj

Hi Hobot

Glad you are ok but like the others have said I feel the pain just looking at the pics.
When I put my 850 into my Wideline Featherbed frame in 1980 the first thing I did was to put my foot pegs up high so they don't even come close to scraping as well when i got the exhaust system made up I got the exhaust bender to bend the pipes so that they tuck right into the frame and as high as possible, its incrediable how far i can lean my bike over without even scraping, but got to be carefull as to not push my tyres to hard, I had a crash in my younger days when pushing it hard around some twisty mountain roads (about 70mph) just coming to the last tight corner on the down hill run, as i was slowing down for the corner all i seen was gravel all over the corner, didn't even get a chance to react as the bike just stepped out from me, was still able to ride it home but with bent handle bars and a bent foot peg and a bit of skin missing.

Ashley

Twice that evening I ground something on left hand turns at what I considered to be rather mild lean angles, something even one of the big cruisers should have been able to negotiate.

Happily I didn't fall down, but I can see how overcooking the corner and needing to lean further to stay on the road could have dished me. Are you going to do anything to increase the lean angle? What can you do?

Vintage Paul

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I was rather surprised/pissed going down again w/o seeming taking much risk. To hook sharper faster one must lean more or fly right up, but, i've no desire to improve anything on my stock Combat, but do want to learn what not do on a stock C'do chassis. The trouble with trying to improve on handling is that just changing one thing just leads to next new limiter and on and on into real danger zone ballistics on a non-Norton. I am a devotee to this on Ms Peel who is made to ride her rims off under hi power flings. So enjoy my spill lesion as no need to do it twice to learn its moral.

+1 for - "Will you please stop doing that. It hurts me to watch." also glad you're okay. Cj

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Alright C, seems reasonable enough request, no more peg pogo low sides for me.
Next time on level clear pavement will move on to the hi side save practice I'm working up to, but not road racer risking speeds on Trixie, as she's not up to it.
My real feather in my cap on this last trip was gaining confidence to finally match Wes's hot smooth pace on his plain Jane C'do.

As too riding style I've given up studying any thing but MX bikes in deep vertical ruts and ice spiked speedway bikes. I don't know if its the bikes limits or the pilot limits but none of the famous examples use hobot style - after- I pull the trigger on Ms Peel and leave their dangerous antics behind. I ain't no racer boy, too much work out for an old fart, I do nothing hard on Ms Peel but fighter pilot breath control to keep vision from tunneling down to nothing and gave up trying to keep sharp focus on the zooming in bluff faces and firing points. i turn into a very jerky-twitchy control pilot, but that's what is takes to do what is taught at my "Ricochet Rabbit Riding Ranch and Rifle Range". Just not on no plain Jane Cdo thank you very much, nor should any of you all.

steveyacht said:

hudson29 said:

hobot said:

Happily I didn't fall down, but I can see how overcooking the corner and needing to lean further to stay on the road could have dished me. Are you going to do anything to increase the lean angle? What can you do?

Vintage Paul

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Study the riding styles of Kenny Roberts, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey, Freddie Spencer and other world F1 Riders. They all shift their body weight to the inside offsetting the bike weight. This allows the bike's lean angle to be less at same speed. This was considered a "radical" technique when it first appeared on the world F1M circuits in the early 70's particularly when compared to the staid, stay in one place styles of Giaccomo Agostini, Barry Sheene, Mike Hailwood, Jarno Sarrinen and other more "classic" European road racers.

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This riding style was first developed by John Surtees in the late 50's to get the MV around the corners quicker. Modern bikes are set up for this style of riding as you can see squids every day going slowly through cornerswith their butts hanging right off at about a 10 degree angle of lean which they might think looks "cool", whatever that is, but hanging off only comes into play usefully when you are leaned to within the last couple of degrees available. Apart from that, it's only window dressing. I just don't think it works on Nortons. Stay where you are and let your trusty Norton do the work.

Racers say they put the knee out to feel amount of lean. I've found the modern inline 4's take effort to hold down in far over leans so shifting to inside helps keep em leaned under power but don't really help them turn sharper better other wise. I'm a bit skilled in hanging off to rescue slides on THE Gravel slopes so know exactly what its best use is and why and it ain't so much to go faster so much as not crash when they can't press any more steering force or lean angle in low traction under power. There are ways around that limitation but its like controled crashing not sliding or drifting which are states of relief not harsher corner G's inward.

The only use I have of a knee out is on sports bikes to cause a bit more air drag inside to help get them tipping easier/faster. I'm new to list but not anymore to crazy cycle states and a big reason for Ms Peel's next edition is to show 3 more funner ways around than road racer video. I think I can get factory Trixie air borne on tight parking lots stunts but not at hwy speeds thank you.

I more often put palms out on surface than a knee out in my mild take downs.

I remember on my 76 Super Sport the pegs were on hinges and when you started hitting them you had just a bit more before it would hit other parts, I gotta think having the bike loaded down with your gear sure played a part in this, and having fixed pegs sure didn't help. It looks like the front forks are compressed quite a bit, I have to think the rear were also like that. I use to have a shoe box half full of levers back in the day, I collected them to remind myself that the bike had limits. In those days I healed rather quickly and also forgot how it hurt to have road rash, These days I buy the best tires I can get and check tire pressures and shocks before riding hard with the guys, also I ride with a little more ??????? Take care Hobot! I hope the bike is ok?? :wink:

Hey ho Horton, love hearing about others longer experiences of lean fouling issues.
i put a foot bar on the sliders for 1000's of miles and can grantee all cycle forks are expanding in leaned turns not compressing. Its takes good stupid trail braking slowing down in leaned turns to compress forks. My get off was purely by slow peg pogo nothing else. On Trixie I just want not to be scared operating her well withing her capacity which is pretty good for motorcycles in general but not up to real sports bikes leaning/turning capacity in 'wide' faster sweepers. I do want to get as handy as I can on Trixie at slowish tight work and thrilling if sane reserved sweepers.

Trixie is just the girl next door to me, Ms Peel is the one I want to press to the max so is built lifted 2" at each end, but can suck down well below factory sag too. Crash cage will limit Peel leans some what but still likely over what best elite cycle can tolerate. I expect like 70's degrees. Time will tell - maybe next year.

O.K. :roll:

When Peel was in her past prime the Buells were the ones I wanted to jost with the most but never got opportunity. They just make so much sense to me plus the punch of the torque curve. in the squads that stopped at my village with a Beull in the group [me w/o a ride] I'd ask which bike was the best handler and all pointed at the Beull's. I hope to encounter them on track days with hot shot riders to have a blast with. Poor Trixie Combat nor sports bikes I've tired to practice Peels lines on were able to deliver or hold enough entry speed energy to allow it so gave up on those to get the G's I crave.

One thing I finally got down on ordinary Trixie this trip was how fast over I could fling her w/o any upset or tire slip ups no racer loads but confidence beyond what one should do in public. Its been a few years since last on a Cdo so creeping up on all the limits and errors to try avoid. No video of that. Bites my ass that I lost it just as pulling on to garage pad, so I can't say I'm really cut out for this hobby.

Looked like a ripple / bump (resealing) in the bend . Youre a bit of a worrie young man . Glad to see youre o.k.

No tin boxes occupying the same piece of road simultaeneously , or similar. Or bears or Elks , moose , deer , or
Gendarmes .

My thoughts is that a disussed airfield , or closed road is less likely to have mobile obsacles , and other distractions .
You should head out to a race track on a open day , as being able to use ALL the road and nothing coming the other way
means you can use all youre faculties concentrateing on the path ahead , rather than seeing the coast is clear . :lol:

Where I rode , Id walked / hitched down the highway so many times studying it , I knew every bump , ripple ( stone almost)
run off , lampost , brickwall & driveway , sideroad & pothole .And still Id be damn wary .A lot less fustrateing on a track ,
relaxing , almost . .Every brakeing point , camber change & blind spot too . Being able to stop in 1/2 the distance you
can see ahead . Or dive over the side , or kick over the top off a tin box . Doesnt work on busses and trucks , then theres
the piss tubes on the cattle trucks . Full load passing proceedure was to wait till nothing coming the other way , then pull
wide so as to be well clear of the pongey chewed up grass coming out the other end .& keep teeth shut & lips sealed .

The amont of room available has you reorganiseing lines & brakeing points , and wondering how you can use it all .
Still pays to walk the track though , Finding bumps ripples camberchanges and wash outs where if you put a wheel off , itll tramline you pulling back.Also the amout of time you can hold the throttle on the stop , is quite interesting . Good to get it
all out off the system , where theres no impedements to the anatomy when passing the bike on youre backside . 8) :|


One of the links here has got footrests @ $15 a pair.And cans of genuwine Norton paint in a few shades .

Youre going to have to find an old Featherbed if you want to keep this Bend Swinging exercise progressing . :mrgreen:

Aw shoot Mark I was just trying to show off how I could cut these pig tails at full lean and got caught out by un-realized hazard I now am well aware of. I learned something good w/o much injury. There was no sand grit or gravel issue just the peg snagging. I know better than ride like you describe even if I know each ripple and rut, its nutzo to ride a regular C'dos near its limits at speed in public. On Trixie my aim is not so much how fast I can take her as it is as not having to slow down as much for turns d/t FEAR. Last thing I want to ever do is ride to get scared. I am no longer as scared of Trixie as prior but still have a ways to go to 'master' her, which really is more like a marriage learning to behave myself on her and not expect too much.

I could not get the broken end of peg out of the brake foot support so put on old Peel's rear sets which actually looks neater to me and may be ok to ride with the lowish American bars. I see pairs of pegs on ebay for 10 bux but ain't bid yet.

I'm timid on Trixie because I already know what hi speed trouble C'dos can get into. I've already ridden Trixie as fast as I ever want to - about 100 indicated. The roads out here are plenty enough to play minor racer in the tights on standard C'dos. The track days are for future Ms Peel who I throw caution to the wind literal by out accelerating and out maneuvering crashing on purpose. Everyone else and their sisters think of superchargers for bee line sprints, not me on Ms Peel its to instantly trip her out into low sides to jerk sharper hi side saves like a sling shot as the frame un-wraps. Ms Peel is so harsh and low around the bends she introduces issues i've never heard discussed by racers and maneuvers that crash the rest. I don't want to have to take the whole width of track to get around I just don't want on coming wild flyers and damn deer to hold me back like it does in public. Ms Peel allowed me to become one with her by a state I call relaxed tension. I do not move my body At All just my eyes and my throttle wrist. I don't even have to work the forks as they just follow the road flow or get jerked in new direction all by themselves, so I mainly just half mindedly damper them, exactly as we all do just to keep the fork wobble at bay at low speeds. Three reasons I don't leave a fixed centered rearward tucked position, 1. Peel is totally neutral so don't need no help to fling down or pick up, 2. body mass aligns with same vectors as normal suspension action as can lean enough there is nil side loading, 3. direction changes happen so fast no time to reposition before the next new ricochet. Trixie is to keep the Norton faith going, Peel is to leave the whole pack behind.

I messed up again, by not posting the live action video of going down, so here.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iycscE9Kqn4&feature=player_embedded[/video]

geez hobot using a gun instead of a drill, filming your offs you must have a death wish..by the way was there some loose gravel on the edge of the bitumen?

hobot said:

I messed up again, by not posting the live action video of going down, so here.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iycscE9Kqn4&feature=player_embedded[/video]

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