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Pazon Altaïr, strange things......?? (2015)

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by marinatlas, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. marinatlas

    marinatlas

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    hi Blaise, I had never seen the disc one, so I suppose mine is the latest one, it's cylindrical with two slots at 180°!
     
  2. marinatlas

    marinatlas

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Hi , I had just copy this from the Pazon technical help site....hope this help!

    ROTOR/TRIGGER AIR-GAP

    The working range for the hall-effect sensors used is 0.5-2.5mm, although they will normally work over larger gaps, often up to 5mm. However, use of gaps over 2.5mm may result in non-functioning of the static timing led.

    With later systems that use radial triggering (rotor runs through the centre of the trigger), the air-gap is effectively fixed by design. This applies to the later type PD1, PD2, PD3, PDMS1, PDMT1, PDVC1, PDMSV1 and their twin-plug head versions. With the design of the radial triggering systems, variations in the rotor driving shaft (e.g. camshaft) and/or variations in the contact-breaker housing do not affect the air-gap.
    Crankshaft triggered systems (PDCTS1, PDCTT1 etc.) also use radial triggering. These systems are normally supplied without a rotor or trigger mounting. The air-gap must be set by the installer within the limits described for reliable operation.

    Some systems use axial triggering, where the rotor runs behind (or above) the trigger assembly. This applies to early British single and twin systems (PD1, PD2T, PD2B etc.), Vincent v-twin, Ducati twin, Honda twin, British 90° and 180° crank unit twin and their twin-plug head versions.

    With axial triggering it is possible for the air-gap to be outside recommended limits, due to variations in the camshaft or points housing. Often a special/modified camshaft can lead to an excessive air-gap. If this happens the system may still run normally. However, the air-gap should be measured if problems occur with setting the static timing (red led not switching off/on correctly) and/or misfiring or cutting out of the ignition.
    To calculate the air-gap, first remove the trigger assembly and measure the height of the hall-effect sensor (small black device on the bottom side of the trigger). Then measure the depth of the steel timing disc (rotor), from the top of the disc to the rim of the points housing (where the trigger sits). Then subtract the first measurement from the second to get the air-gap.
    To close up an excessive air-gap will require either a thin metal shim placed around the rotor taper (to move it out), or you could machine a new rotor to suit. If you choose to make a new rotor, it should be machined from mild (low carbon) steel. Depending on the system, the rotor requires one, two or three 8mm holes, radius 17mm. If you don’t have the capability to make the full rotor with taper, you could machine just the top section, i.e. add steel disc to the existing rotor. You would need to ensure there are no screw heads etc. passing under the face of the hall-effect sensor. So it would need to be carefully welded around the outer circumference, or fixed with screws from behind going into blind threads (stopping say 1mm short of the top surface).
     
    concours likes this.
  3. blaisestation

    blaisestation

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Hi,
    Thanks for that ,
    Mine is the same as yours ,so maybe on the next rainy day i´ll dig it out of the drawer and try out some spaceing .
    Cheers
     
  4. marinatlas

    marinatlas

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Hi, nice if that work for you .....! I had found only one suitable washer of the correct inside diameter in my drawer!!
    sure it was not of the proper width ,and I was affraid the rotor taper cannot "grip" into the camshaft , but after tightening the rotor bolt it seems to work , better if "they" supplied few washers of different width to fit for those poor customers who have no drawers full of bits and bobs................!!!
     
  5. blaisestation

    blaisestation

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Hi,
    yes it would be good if it is just a simple solution to get it to work for me .
    i´ve tried everything else and gave up in the end thinking that the rotor had to much wobble for it to work in
    my bike.
    but the rotor had no percevible play !
    Anyway thanks again ,and i´ll let you know how i get on .
    Blaise
     
  6. ntst8

    ntst8 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    My altair is now running well but it did take some setting up, I had thought the rotor was super sensitive to wobble.
    The rotor doesn't have a shoulder resting against the end of the cam, it just relies on the taper fit for location so i wonder whether a washer of the correct thickness forces the rotor to sit square?
    We used a neat fitting sleeve over the rotor to hold it square while the bolt was tightened but a correct thickness washer sounds better.
     
  7. speedrattle

    speedrattle

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    new pazon rotor:

    [​IMG]

    old pazon rotor:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. kerinorton

    kerinorton

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    I just fitted a new Pazon a short while ago and didn't have any problems. According to the pictures above, it is the older design rotor. Have not seen on with the grooves in it yet. Maybe we could get Andy to get on this site and help sort out the silly problems. These things are bolt up and go. Even the basic set up procedure allowed me to get my bike running with the timing set at 33 Degrees. [ I re set it to 31 degrees after getting it running. ]
    All the best , Dereck

    Don't forget, Triumphs have clockwise rotation of their cams while Norton's and BSA's have anticlockwise rotation and if you set them wrong you may get the result mentioned above here. { my bike is going well and I'm not going to try setting it wrong to finds out what happens. }

    Dereck
     
  9. hobot

    hobot

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    By far most of the Pazions assembled and work as advertised but there must of been some dozens of distraught nuyers like mr that Pazion or selling vendor did not believe anything wrong but the owner but sent new brain box just to make peace so a relief they are recently acknowledging it with a remedy. One always needs to keep the concept of *luck of the draw* in discussing Commando items and what was sold in 1972. Wet sump devices and rear axles for instance. i was able to find a decent AAU and enough spares to restore some so may never use the Pzaion.
     
  10. marinatlas

    marinatlas

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Hi , about the pictures , I sincerly think they are wrong , the one at the top is the one I have and is neither old or new, and is currently supplied with the altair and smart fire , the other one at the bottom is for sure fire , one for digital ignition, the other for analogic ..................
    it was with the top notch digital altair rotor that I had problems.............!!
     
  11. hobot

    hobot

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    ugh marinatlas my Surefire has the wide alu rotor so implies I may still never get it to work for me. The Pazion saga cost me a few weeks riding with one wkend lost thinking I needed hand holding so next wkend got my expert helper to quadrupe check everything then period to get in mood to recovert back to point and the time doing it and dialing back in like 4 times more tedius than the electronic kind. I literally got in over my mechanidcal head being told 15 yr ago - just dive in they are such simple things what can go wrong.
     
  12. speedrattle

    speedrattle

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    i meant older or newer design. you can buy them all new, as you say. the air gap issue shouldn't have been your problem, since you have the new design digital rotor.

    i'd like to buy a new smartfire, but the new rotors aren't yet available.
     
  13. marinatlas

    marinatlas

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Hi, yes old post , but if you check to PAzon Altair they had changed their rotor , but unfortunately after asking to Andy, it is not possible to just change the rotor , he said to me that all parts are different from the previous one , so he only advised me to buy a new one .........
    http://www.pazon.com/ignition-system/smart-fire-rotor-single-twin.html
     
  14. concours

    concours VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Looks like I’ve got some (detective) work to do,
     
  15. concours

    concours VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011

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