Painter Bull?

Roadrash · Feb 10, 2014

The shop painting my tank and panels insists the only way to get clean edges on sprayed logos is to hand pinstripe all the edges of the letters/numbers. I find that hard to believe with all the photos of nice paint jobs here, but I am not a pro and could use some advice from people with experience. This just seems like a fix to poor technique that adds unnecessary labor.

Nater_Potater · Feb 10, 2014

Re: Paintrer Bull?

Roadrash said:
The shop painting my tank and panels insists the only way to get clean edges on sprayed logos is to hand pinstripe all the edges of the letters/numbers. I find that hard to believe with all the photos of nice paint jobs here, but I am not a pro and could use some advice from people with experience. This just seems like a fix to poor technique that adds unnecessary labor.

While there's something to be said for a hand-striped paint job, you can (arguably) get an equal overall finish by laying out the colors, stripes, and logos, covering everything with copious quantities of clear, then wet-sanding/buffing/polishing. That applies to both lacquer and base-coat/clear-coat processes. Both scenarios assume that all materials are compatible with each other.

Nathan

rvich · Feb 10, 2014

Re: Paintrer Bull?

I have painted exactly one tank and two side panels. That is how much experience I have.

I went to the local sign shop and had them cut a Norton logo from vinyl. The letters where cleaned to produce a stencil. I applied it over my clear coat, sprayed the leters, removed the stencil and added another layer of clear coat. I am sure that professionals and experts could look at this paint job and find things wrong with it. Heck, I am sure I can find things wrong with it, but for my first attempt I was pretty happy with it. The letters came out crisp. Now, pin stripes...well, you will notice I didn't go there.

Good luck,
Russ

Rohan · Feb 10, 2014

Its probably irrelevant to this thread,
but the vinyl Norton logo and letters, on later Commandos at least , stick up from the painted surface quite a deal....

htown16 · Feb 10, 2014

Thanks Rohan. I was afraid to clear over my vinyl stickers, so I just tell myself that's how they came from the factory. I do have an original paint tank and they were quite prominant. FWIW the graphics on most classic muscle cars of late 60's and early 70's were tape or stickers also. It looks kind of strange to see them clear coated on restored cars.

Roadrash · Feb 10, 2014

htown16 said:
Thanks Rohan. I was afraid to clear over my vinyl stickers, so I just tell myself that's how they came from the factory. I do have an original paint tank and they were quite prominant. FWIW the graphics on most classic muscle cars of late 60's and early 70's were tape or stickers also. It looks kind of strange to see them clear coated on restored cars.

That is true but
I'm asking if people have had there decals sprayed professionally using the same reverse decal/stencil process that rvich is describing. Was it a flawless outcome? Were the edges of the characters clean and crisp? My painter is telling me the edges will be imperfect and will require hand stripping to clean them up $$. Did anyone have the same conversation with their painter?
Or are all the beautifully painted bikes in the "pictures of your Norton commandos" thread using vinyl's -as my painter is claiming.

Roadrash · Feb 10, 2014

Re: Paintrer Bull?

rvich said:
I have painted exactly one tank and two side panels. That is how much experience I have.

I went to the local sign shop and had them cut a Norton logo from vinyl. The letters where cleaned to produce a stencil. I applied it over my clear coat, sprayed the leters, removed the stencil and added another layer of clear coat. I am sure that professionals and experts could look at this paint job and find things wrong with it. Heck, I am sure I can find things wrong with it, but for my first attempt I was pretty happy with it. The letters came out crisp. Now, pin stripes...well, you will notice I didn't go there.

Good luck,
Russ

That looks very good rvich. Did you have a hard time pulling the stencil off without damaging the logo edges?

rvich · Feb 10, 2014

No, It was easy to remove the vinyl. I just let the paint kick but peeled it before it fully cured. I could feel the edge of the letters, so I polished it a bit and then clear coated it again. There are a lot of bikes out there running around with painted logos these days. Some have been done by putting the letters and stripes on over a base coat and then spraying the main color over it. Then the vinyl is removed to reveal the base color. I don't know exactly how Brent Budgor is doing his but I am pretty sure there are no decals involved. http://www.vintage-vendor.com/galleryBeforeAfter.html

CNW proudly says their's are all painted as well. It was from looking at these types of examples and reading a few threads here that convinced me to try it. Like I said. I have only done one!

Russ

B+Bogus · Feb 11, 2014

Roadrash said:
htown16 said:

Thanks Rohan. I was afraid to clear over my vinyl stickers, so I just tell myself that's how they came from the factory. I do have an original paint tank and they were quite prominant. FWIW the graphics on most classic muscle cars of late 60's and early 70's were tape or stickers also. It looks kind of strange to see them clear coated on restored cars.

Click to expand...

That is true but
I'm asking if people have had there decals sprayed professionally using the same reverse decal/stencil process that rvich is describing. Was it a flawless outcome? Were the edges of the characters clean and crisp? My painter is telling me the edges will be imperfect and will require hand stripping to clean them up $$. Did anyone have the same conversation with their painter?
Or are all the beautifully painted bikes in the "pictures of your Norton commandos" thread using vinyl's -as my painter is claiming.

I think you're being fed a line. I only use stencils these days, and as Nathan says, once cleared and flatted it all blends in together.
I've used waterslide decals which have blended in just fine as well, but having bought a vinyl cutter, stencils work for me.

Here's one I did earlier...

And another

I agree about lacquered in graphics looking strange, and in a concours may get negative marks, but I'm all for practical and durable.
That said, there's no reason why the graphic couldn't be sprayed, flatted and polished without being cleared over. It would keep the look and still be more durable.

pierodn · Feb 11, 2014

New paint with Roadster decal from Andover and Commando 750 decal "made at home"

olChris · Feb 11, 2014

Roadrash said:
htown16 said:

Thanks Rohan. I was afraid to clear over my vinyl stickers, so I just tell myself that's how they came from the factory. I do have an original paint tank and they were quite prominant. FWIW the graphics on most classic muscle cars of late 60's and early 70's were tape or stickers also. It looks kind of strange to see them clear coated on restored cars.

Click to expand...

That is true but
I'm asking if people have had there decals sprayed professionally using the same reverse decal/stencil process that rvich is describing. Was it a flawless outcome? Were the edges of the characters clean and crisp? My painter is telling me the edges will be imperfect and will require hand stripping to clean them up $$. Did anyone have the same conversation with their painter?
Or are all the beautifully painted bikes in the "pictures of your Norton commandos" thread using vinyl's -as my painter is claiming.

My original roadster MK3 tank had Norton "Stickers" from factory and the double pinstripping was done by hand.... If there was a clear coat over the top it would have been minimal...................... IMO, Pinstriping was done by hand cos they didnt have "dual" pinstriping tape like they have today.....

If you want a flush finish just add another 5-10 coats of clear over that sticker area, then your laughfin..

..

olChris · Feb 11, 2014

Straight off the gun with sticker logo and sticker pinstriping and plenty of clear..... If you want concourse, then you pay for concourse!!!!

olChris · Feb 11, 2014

Original tank, notice the raised Norton sticker and although not real clear the pinstriping was flush and could barely be felt... Whilst taking measurement for the reapplication of stripes they were consistantly out up to 8mm/7/16"ish out of symentry.........

DogT · Feb 11, 2014

B+ with those fine outlines how do you get it tight in registration? I've had a vinyl cutter tell me it's very hard. with the stencils.

Dave

olChris · Feb 11, 2014

DogT said:
B+ with those fine outlines how do you get it tight in registration? I've had a vinyl cutter tell me it's very hard. with the stencils.

Dave

???? wot.. "tight in registration" ???

batrider · Feb 11, 2014

Easy one. If you are unhappy with him already then find another painter.

DogT · Feb 11, 2014

Yeah, the outline from my S panels have a very tight or small outline in black over gold, and I've been told it's almost impossible to get the black outline correct. I'd just like B+ to let us know how he gets it 'registered' or correct for the outline to be right if that makes any sense. Otherwise it looks 3D.

Dave

Matt Spencer · Feb 11, 2014

Painting with masks , or useing masking tape drawing the symbol and cutting it out with a scalple :shock: Like some of us do ,
Its best to throw two light coats of clear where the Logo etc is to go - so f theres overspray clearing it wont carve up the colour coat .
Useually you put a coat of clear on when masked , as its better that clear creeps under the edges than the logo colour .
When hardened youd lightly ( 400 ) sand to remove hard / lifted edges , before clear coating .
Any paint , particularly metalic , needs clear over .
Useing say a pint sprayed light with 50 % thinner , particularly the first two ( lacquer ) so as NOT to melt the finish , then progessively thining at each coat ,
gets the 20 coats deep mirror finish look , sanding wet with 600 every so many coats .

olChris · Feb 11, 2014

DogT said:
Yeah, the outline from my S panels have a very tight or small outline in black over gold, and I've been told it's almost impossible to get the black outline correct. I'd just like B+ to let us know how he gets it 'registered' or correct for the outline to be right if that makes any sense. Otherwise it looks 3D.

Dave

Still not sure whoat your saying!! Tighter circle with pinstriping "Tape".... Worked for me... Ohhh and i painted my own tank and panels, so i make sure im happy..

Nater_Potater · Feb 11, 2014

Roadrash said:
I'm asking if people have had there decals sprayed professionally using the same reverse decal/stencil process that rvich is describing. Was it a flawless outcome? Were the edges of the characters clean and crisp? My painter is telling me the edges will be imperfect and will require hand stripping to clean them up $$. Did anyone have the same conversation with their painter?
Or are all the beautifully painted bikes in the "pictures of your Norton commandos" thread using vinyl's -as my painter is claiming.

Well, not professionally (I did it myself), but I laid-out the pin-striping on my '67 Dart for the rear bumblebee stripe by shooting a base black, masking off where the black would ultimately show through, covering everything with Sublime Green, pulling the tape, then clear-coating the whole mess. Not to brag, but it turned out gorgeous! I wonder if your painter is just trying to milk you for more; I have no qualms with shooting through a stencil, then clear-coating. There are those that would argue that it was "over-restored", but I like the effect much more than factory stickers, as it looks just like it is; a beautiful paint job with a sticker slapped on top.
A "trick" for getting clean edges is to pull the tape flatly back on itself. This reduces the possibility of lifting the base colors, and cuts the paint's edges cleaner. Maybe your body man doesn't know this...

Painter Bull?

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