original or upgrade?

Onder · Oct 21, 2014

There are stock bikes, silhouette bikes and everything goes bikes where the only thing original is the tank decal.
Choice is yours. The lines between them can blur but the more they blur the harder to sell because you really
have three different buyers markets here.
As for the brake, I did the sleeved down stock master with a lightened and ground true disk. Two fingers will lock
it as I did to my shock and awe. Can only imagine what a multi pot bigger rotor will do.

G81 Can Cycle · Oct 21, 2014

hobot said:
If in camp that thinks most of stock Norton is obsolete crap and keeping in mind time=money, I'd Consider scraping the whole POS wreck as trade in core to CNW for one of their all custom Cdos to ride with nothing left to upgraded.

Well, I happen to agree. There are 4 vintage Nortons in my garage. But, the one that gets the most saddle time is my CNW build 99. But it is not everybody's cup of tea.

john robert bould · Oct 21, 2014

looks good to me!

G81 Can Cycle · Oct 21, 2014

Of course there is always this upgrade.

john robert bould · Oct 21, 2014

thats not an upgrade, its a new concept..only the name on the tank is original. but still a nice bike..notice the phrase Nice . But its still flying the flag,fair play to all involved.

dimitri · Oct 21, 2014

I have one of those already ;-)

dimitri · Oct 21, 2014

Thanks for the pics by the way! Inspiring and a very nice collection you have there!

G81 Can Cycle · Oct 21, 2014

john robert bould said:
thats not an upgrade, its a new concept..only the name on the tank is original. but still a nice bike..notice the phrase Nice . But its still flying the flag,fair play to all involved.

My apologies. It was an attempt at humor.

john robert bould · Oct 21, 2014

Couldnt see the cheeky glint in your eye from here.

G81 Can Cycle said:
john robert bould said:

thats not an upgrade, its a new concept..only the name on the tank is original. but still a nice bike..notice the phrase Nice . But its still flying the flag,fair play to all involved.

Click to expand...

My apologies. It was an attempt at humor.

G81 Can Cycle · Oct 21, 2014

john robert bould said:
Couldnt see the cheeky glint in your eye from here.

The cheeky glint was there, really :lol:

midnightlamp · Oct 21, 2014

I won't be "that guy", but if you can do the work yourself there are a LOT of fun things you can do to a commando for 2k US that would literally set it as a totally awesome DD. For that much you can get: Lansdowne front dampers, YSS Adjustable Rears, Resprung front, tapered bearings, JS flatslides, a decent EI (like a powerarc), an AGM battery, good tires, a brake upgrade, a good set of alloy rims and stainless spokes, and adjustable isos, and new harnesses. Would ride better than new and make a wonderful daily rider if you spent the rest on a cleaned up frame.

frankdamp · Oct 21, 2014

As a former engineer at Marston Road and deeply immersed in the 6 months before the unveiling of the Commando at the 1967 show, I'd add a minor caution. Having a very powerful front brake could cause the imposition of forces into the top tube that could cause it to buckle near where the head-stock bracing is located.

If your bike has the J. Michael Mouse extra tube, it would probably be OK. The original 2LS front brake was so wimpy, it defied description. I had a number of near collisions during testing because of it. I took the initiative to try some brittle-lacquer tests and was able to show that the brake back-plate started to deform with higher forces on the brake lever and that, no matter how hard you pulled the lever, you didn't get any more braking effect.

I'd emigrated to the US before I was aware of any changes going into production, but I think N-V actually issued a service bulletin with a stiffer brake back-plate to replace the original.

john robert bould · Oct 22, 2014

Frank.
I agree in the worst example ; two up down a steep bank,with two huge disc's twin calipers and a modern rubber, But before frame buckling happened would the tyre loose its grip ..? The maths would be simple : effort to bend the tubes/force from the ground to the frame etc...know doubt you as a motorcyce development engineer could ,and indeed SHOULD have the formula. Notice i did'nt say EX developent a horse is still a horse even when retired from the races :lol: . :!: I await with baited breath :roll:

L.A.B. · Oct 22, 2014

frankdamp said:
As a former engineer at Marston Road and deeply immersed in the 6 months before the unveiling of the Commando at the 1967 show, I'd add a minor caution. Having a very powerful front brake could cause the imposition of forces into the top tube that could cause it to buckle near where the head-stock bracing is located.

Frank, how many times must we endure this? The frame was fixed very early on in production, I don't think there has ever been any reports of brakes buckling the main tubes, and we've seen some fairly powerful single and double disc front brakes fitted to Commandos.

auldblue · Oct 22, 2014

L.A.B. said:
frankdamp said:

As a former engineer at Marston Road and deeply immersed in the 6 months before the unveiling of the Commando at the 1967 show, I'd add a minor caution. Having a very powerful front brake could cause the imposition of forces into the top tube that could cause it to buckle near where the head-stock bracing is located.

Click to expand...

Frank, how many times must we endure this? The frame was fixed very early on in production, I don't think there has ever been any reports of brakes buckling the main tubes, and we've seen some fairly powerful single and double disc front brakes fitted to Commandos.

I would hazard a guess and say that twin front discs are a safer method of keeping your frame intact than using the " Mercedes Benz " method of coming to a dead stop as described earlier by Dimitri.

J

dimitri · Oct 22, 2014

I must agree that my method is not the best to protect the frame from bending.

john robert bould · Oct 22, 2014

Please tell us more on the crash, ie where you T boned "sorry didnt see you" type ..or did you see the car and the stock brake didnt pull up in time..who did you think was to blaim. point is many still use a stock system,but as yet not used a one ton merc as a brake. I for one , Now I have no doubt a up-rated front end is on the top of the list :!: .

dimitri said:
I must agree that my method is not the best to protect the frame from bending.

dimitri · Oct 22, 2014

I was driving on a major road near where i live. It has several smaller roads where traffic can cross this road. A woman in her Mercedes seemed to stop (she had to) before crossing the road i was driving on. She was slowing down, which i probably interpreted as braking. Then she began to cross slowly. At that moment, i was not even braking hard yet thinking she was going to stop anyway. When i realized she was to far on the road, i had to make the choice... avoiding her left or right. I chose wrong!

She hit the pedal, going in the same direction i chose.

A big misunderstanding, but she was doing a manoever and had to stop, letting me pass. So there is no discussion there.

I was not driving hard, but i don't know if better brakes would have prevented this crash. Maybe... I usually adapt my driving style to the bike i'm on. Being on my 961 could, even with the perfect brakes, have ended worse. I try not to think about it.

Bernhard · Oct 22, 2014

dimitri said:
I asked a few companies for straightening the frame. But the engine had to be in the frame. When i asked if isolastics was not going to give problems that way, they seemed unsure. Probably no experience with Norton frames. If they would have to make a custom jig, the cost would not be that far off from a new frame. And shipping to the UK and back won't save me much money either i think.
To be honest, i would not feel comfortable with a frame i know that was bent this hard (There is quite some torsion in the headstock).

Glad you are OK, you have to weigh up the pros and cons of getting this frame straighten.
I had a bad T bone accident where I hit the side of a car pretty hard on a Honda VT500 and went flying over the boot of the car at a traffic light controlled road junction. The bike came off worse, so I had it straightened in a Motoliner jig. The headstock was bent back and to one side, to cut a long story short, there was a lot of banging with a iron bar through the headstock with a long handled 4lb hammer.
They align the headstock and either side of the swinging arm centres as a datum to get the frame true and straight, they need the engine in to prevent any distortion of the mounting points.
Needless to say, with replaced forks and front wheel, they got the wheels 100% in alignment

This commando frame can be straightened by a skilled person using a suitable jig.

john robert bould · Oct 22, 2014

Thats what happened to me, i got T boned by a 92 years old guy, who turned out had never passed a test! He had grand farther licence from the war!
Poor man, lost the right to drive again, un-able to read a number plate..i was a bit shocked but thats all, flying over his roof! doing about 15mph.
Landed with a couple of forward rolls...Bike was a Honda....so no great loss there!

Small crash's like yours makes you far more alert, i am allways expecting the un-expected ..any way back to the workshop..i have a few dampers to post off to France :wink:
regards .

dimitri said:
I was driving on a major road near where i live. It has several smaller roads where traffic can cross this road. A woman in her Mercedes seemed to stop (she had to) before crossing the road i was driving on. She was slowing down, which i probably interpreted as braking. Then she began to cross slowly. At that moment, i was not even braking hard yet thinking she was going to stop anyway. When i realized she was to far on the road, i had to make the choice... avoiding her left or right. I chose wrong! She hit the pedal, going in the same direction i chose.

A big misunderstanding, but she was doing a manoever and had to stop, letting me pass. So there is no discussion there.

I was not driving hard, but i don't know if better brakes would have prevented this crash. Maybe... I usually adapt my driving style to the bike i'm on. Being on my 961 could, even with the perfect brakes, have ended worse. I try not to think about it.

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