Ordering Parts For a Norton Dominator.

Hey Guys,

I'm beginning a restoration on a '58 Model 77 Norton Dominator. I need to start ordering parts and Skip (Active member) sent me a copy of a parts manual for the unique M77.

Any suggestions on where to order the parts from?

The part numbers do not match up with anything on the Norvil site or Andover Norton site. Any suggestions will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

You could try Domiracer, and they're not too far away.

http://www.domiracer.com

They've got a pretty extensive inventory of parts and their inventory is searchable, once you figure out how to query.

Also, AMC Classic Spares in the UK, though mainly Matchless/AJS, has some parts that are common to Norton.

What parts are we talking about ?

Different suppliers have different ranges of parts, and even different qualities it seems....

There is a guy on the Brit Bike Forum Skip Borland i think his name is who seems to be an expert on 77's and Nomads

Hi Joe,

Domiraces has some parts (mostly oriental reproduction). I get most from Norvil in England, or Walridge in Canada. I use Molnar Manx & Norvil for stainless steel fasteners.

The parts book I sent you uses the "old" series part numbers, I have a conversion list that covers most of the parts, send me a list of the parts & part numbers & I can give you the "new" numbers & some thoughts on suppliers.
I now have a source for the tool box covers & the correct type exhaust pipes with the single radius, not the double radius like the Atlas used. I got my seat from P&P in the UK (really hard to find).
Just let me know, glad to hear you got the book !!!!!!!!

Skip Brolund (sbrolund@yahoo.com)

jsouthard said:

Hey Guys,

I'm beginning a restoration on a '58 Model 77 Norton Dominator. I need to start ordering parts and Skip (Active member) sent me a copy of a parts manual for the unique M77.
Thanks,

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I had one of these in basket case form, It came with a large pile of bikes and parts I bought. I was afraid i would form an attch to it, So as I already have a severe hoarding problem with bikes and cars, I decided to sell it.
Its a unique bike., I spent a lot of time researching them, (mine was a mdl 77 as well) I had the frame, forks, wheels, the bottom end and cyl, trans, maggie, and some other odds and ends. they only made them for 2 years and were for sidecars, Some parts interchange from the Dommi, and some Singles (kind of a parts bin engineering special), You actually need several parts books to try and look for parts that will work from the Dommi twin and Singles. This will help your search to a great extent.

You need to start with a wish list with description and part numbers, its very possible other bikes used the same part with a different number.

I sold mine as a package deal this spring to a young guy up in Seattle who works at a bicycle shop as a mechanic, He wanted something unique old and challenging and he got it in spades with this one. We poked around in my parts and i threw in some other parts that werent correct for that model but would help him get it up and running. I would suggest the same. I dont know what you need, but you might want to comprimise and put it together and keep searching for the rest of the stuff to make it original. but in the interim,, you can enjoy it as opposed to the project that never gets done.
Those Frames were stupidly heavy,, wow,. but for a sidecar they were what you needed. other frames for Norton in that time frame were NOT up to sidecar duty.
Theres not a lot of literature on them, A few references to them in Bacons Norton twin resto guide and a have a NORTON book with some magazine reviews about them when they came out, and a companion review of the Dommi. I could photocopy them if you like if you cant find them elsewhere. I dont know if i still have the emails, but there was a guy back east who restored one and senmt me a lot of emails and pictures, he had recently completed one. He was very helpful. I think i fwded them to the guy I sold the bike too but I suspect i deleted the emails after that.
My wife has a 47 ES2 and I have a poor mans Manx project from a 61 ES2, and a Basket case rigid Dommi Bitsa, thats the extent of my early Nortons, the rest are hybrids, N15, G15,P11, 2 Atlases, A Norley (buell engine going in a wideline frame) and a couple of C-dos.. and a Norton America Prtotype bike

skipsoldbikes said:

The parts book I sent you uses the "old" series part numbers, I have a conversion list that covers most of the parts, send me a list of the parts & part numbers & I can give you the "new" numbers & some thoughts on suppliers.
I now have a source for the tool box covers & the correct type exhaust pipes with the single radius, not the double radius like the Atlas used. I got my seat from P&P in the UK (really hard to find).
Just let me know, glad to hear you got the book !!!!!!!!

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Thanks Skip. The parts book has been very helpful. Currently Classic Cyles in New Jersey is working on the top end so those bits are not really the issue. I just stripped and cleaned up the gearbox and was able to order the parts needed from Andover Norton. They sell a part number conversion guide that should help as well.

In looking over the forks, Frame Bits etc. nothing seems to match up. I'll use the conversion guide when i get it to see if i can sort it out.

Be aware that bikes with the old long roadholder forks aren't covered too well in more modern parts lists - even more so if you have Nortons laydown gearbox.
Although AMC boxes may have better coverage.

Nortons Parts Lists got an all new numbering system somewhere along the way (in the late 1950s ?) and parts numbers conversion lists sometimes give you the modern equivalent part, rather than the original type of part. This can result in wrong thread types, amongst some more obscure problems. A lot of older parts are thus only available under the old part numbers...

Opethiselps.

possm said:

There is a guy on the Brit Bike Forum Skip Borland i think his name is who seems to be an expert on 77's and Nomads

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The name is Eugene "Skip" Brolund, and the only person who considers him an expert on Nortons is himself. By all means let him refer you to factory parts lists and other sources of parts, but know he has very little common sense or scruples and is a relative newcomer to pre-Commando Nortons.

Mr. Brolund parades around the internet talking about his Norton Nomad which he claims came with an 89mm stroke crank with 1.75" rod journals, which is a complete farce. He came to this conclusion simply because an Ebay salesman and ignoramus (Howard Johnston) misrepresented and sold him an Atlas crankshaft and told him that it was so. So go ahead and exchange information and/or parts with Mr. Brolund but be on your guard.

Phil Radford of Fair Spares agrees that Skip Brolund and Ebay Salesman Howard Johnston both are at the least ignorant and at worst outright liars.

Wouldn't an Atlas crank have a different stroke to a (600cc) Nomad ??

"Why are the pistons hitting the head ?".

Rohan said:

Wouldn't an Atlas crank have a different stroke to a (600cc) Nomad ??"Why are the pistons hitting the head ?".

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Why yes it would Rohan. Brolund proudly put up photographs of his great Ebay find on flickr for us all to see, and I could tell right off the bat that it was an 89mm stroke Atlas/Commando crank and not a pre-63' Bracebridge Street Model 99 82mm stroke crank. But this did not matter to him. Even after he checked the stroke and put up on the U.K. NOC forum that it's stroke indeed measured 89mm, he kept right on insisting that it was the original crank for his model 99.
So not only is he out there crowing around the world that he has a 600cc Norton Model 99 with 1.75" crank journals, it also will be 650cc. If he figures out how to do enough grinding on the cases or rods, to get it all to fit together, or if he uses some special made rods with enough clearance to clear the cases, then we will all get to see him parade around on the world's first and only 650cc 1960 Model 99 Norton.
Skip Brolund and Ebay seller "Halcyon Howard" (Howard Johnston), have been busy making up and re-writing Norton History for quite a number of months now. The sad thing is that people new to the Norton scene listen to his line of BS and swallow it hook-line and sinker. It really is not worth it for anyone to waste time on Brolund, but if anyone cares to read everything he has put up on internet forums in the last year or so about his Nomad project, it is easy to find him contradicting himself and lying. I really do not want to see anyone pester Phil Radford, and I am sure he does not want to be pestered either, but I did call him up and he told me that he never heard of any model 99 or 600cc Norton with anything other than 1.5" rod journals, and an 82mm stroke, and that he never sold anything besides standard 99 parts to Howard Johnston the Ebay parts dealer.

Brolund has also put words in the mouth of Anthony Curzon, a collector of Norton scrambers in the U.K., claiming that Curzon will confirm that 1960 Norton Scramblers had 1.75" rod journals. BUT right on the U.K. Norton club forum Curzon stated that Skip Brolund was the one who told HIM that Norton sold 99 Nomads with 1.75 rod journals, so that was another lie on Brolund's parts.

Brolund will claim that Phil Hannam has absolutely supplied him with information from former Norton employee Peter Roydhouse that Norton sold big-journal Model 99 Nortons. What Brolund did not know was that Hannam sent me all the same Roydhouse letters at the same time, and also Hannam sent me his own seriously flawed analysis of the letters. No Roydhouse letter ever states anything about Nomad Scramblers with big rod journals, it is merely Phil Hannam's "guess" that "it makes sense" that Norton would have tried that. So Phil Hannam shares some of the blame on this debacle for encouraging Brolund with bad opinion and conjecture.

Brolund writes all sorts of fiction on the BritBike forum about Norton motorcycles and engines. I do not know if he has gone back and edited any of his crazier statements, but it would not matter as I took screen-shots long ago of most of what he posted so as to document his butchering of Norton history. In the same thread, Brolund BOTH claims that he "knows" Norton put "large diameter cranks" in the 88ss and 99ss an then asks if anyone knows if they did! He did not know that although the 88ss and 99ss did not hit the dealer floors until over a year after the last Nomad was made, that they still all only had 1.5" rod journals, as did the last 99ss that was ever made. I know the owner of the last 99ss and he has a spare original 99ss engine for it and he will let anyone know that they have the same rod-journal diameter that all Norton 88 and 99 motorcycles did.

Yes, Norton did experiment with stronger crankshafts for Norton Dominators and put some in works roadracers used in production racing and Grand Prix events that used the 88 engine, but no production Norton 88 or 99 Nomads included, ever had anything but the regular old 1.5" journals. Heinz Kegler's 1962 Daytona 88 came with 1.6" journals, and I know a man who has one of those crankshafts and I have photos of it. It was simply a 88ss crank that was not ground down so far as the standard bikes, right down to all it's casting marks and numbers. I also know a fellow who has Domiracer connecting rods which he personally got from Paul Dunstall that are all alloy and take a standard 1.75" 650cc bearing shell.

Despite repeated requests, Mr. Brolund has never produced one shred of documentation about 1.75" Norton 99 rod journals. He did tell everyone that Norton employee P.L. Garratt's famous book on servicing Nortons is a great source of information on Norton Nomads, but if anyone looks at it's 1962 printing, the last one, they will see it states that Nomads have 1.5" rod journals.

I will shake Skip Brolund's hand if he ever is a big enough man to admit he was scammed by Howard Johnston into buying an Atlas crank, takes the ridiculous claim of his Nomad having 1.75" rod journals down which he has up on his BritBike forum postings, and admits he lied about and put words into the mouths of other Norton enthusiasts, but from his past records I seriously doubt he will ever do that. My guess is he will just keep putting more energy and money into this farce......

Beng,

I appreciate your passion but must say I have been speaking with Skip for the last year off and on about this project. He has never once mention or said to me that he was an expert on Norton's or on Model 77 / Nomad's. He has on the other hand been very responsive to questions, support and even sent me a spares parts list to my door, free of charge without asking for shipping.

I am considered young in this field (32), have been passionate about Norton's for the last ten years and have stumbled my way through 2 restorations. I have lived in 4 major cities over the last ten years including, Minneapolis, Detroit, Nashville and now Washington D.C. and have met a lot of British bike enthusiasts and "Norton Guys".

I have only met ONE actual "Norton Expert" in all these years and he doesn't have an email account, Facebook or access to this site. He is too busy fixing all the "experts" Norton's.

Skip is good people.

I can understand Mr. Southard, why you would think "Skip is good people", as you and him seem to have some things in common. I acted not on what you or Mr. Brolund said, but the quote below.

possm said:

There is a guy on the Brit Bike Forum Skip Borland i think his name is who seems to be an expert on 77's and Nomads

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All I ever wished to do in this case is point out facts, the information easily found in Norton's own literature, and the statements Mr. Brolund has made about Norton motorcycles over the last year or so that are errors or lies. All are there for people to access and see for themselves.

As time is spent in the vintage motorcycle scene, those with have half a brain not only learn about the motorcycles of their choice, but also how to spot bull-shit artists. Good luck with that learning curve...

Disappointing post, Ben, you still haven't learned to play the ball, not the man....

anybody seen this and if so is it priced right....no title etc.... Ebay # 281022509714

Price seems in line with other basket Nortons - depends on what the bidding reaches ?!
It doesn't run, so rebuild cost could be anything though. And quite a bit to replace/find.
Not very good pix either, no rhs views, hiding something ??

And iron engines are an acquired taste, performance is, how shall we say, leisurely..

Eugene Brolund on the BritBike Forum Website: "The crank diameter was also confirmed by Mike Bell, whose fully restored Nomad is on display in the National Motorcycle Museum in England. His is an earlier model with the 21" front wheel (later models used a 19" wheel), but in doing his research, he can confirm the crank dia. on the later Nomad engines" (taken from this thread: http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthrea ... ber=411817)

Then we have Phil Hannam today saying on the NOC website: "My old friend, Mike Bell, has rebuilt a considerable number of Nomads but says he has not come across any with the larger journal crankshafts."

The above is typical of what Hannam, Dixon and Brolund do, and in fact is all they have ever done, run around in circles claiming "he said, she said" while at the same time offering no actual information or documentation. It is also typical of the way Eugene Brolund has put words in the mouths of others in the Norton community.

There has never been a single shred of period documentation or commentary put up by anyone showing that Norton model 99 Scramblers had any crankshaft other than that used by any other Model 99 Norton, and that includes Brolund, Hannam or Anna Dixon, all three arch-enemies of Norton history and facts.

That the small Norton company would spend the money to tool up and produce special crankshafts and connecting rods for two months of production, and then scrap the tooling and put the 1.5" rod journals in the 88 and 99 through the end of production is ridiculous in the first place.

This is probably not the last we have heard on this subject !?
It would be odd indeed though if Nortons did a special crank for the Nomad, and didn't carry it through into the rest of the line until several years later.

However, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

Rohan said:

Price seems in line with other basket Nortons - And iron engines are an acquired taste, performance is, how shall we say, leisurely..

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Thanks, that Iron engine is what made me think it was maybe worth something more..... Cj

Really nicely restored early Dominators have made good $$ in the past - a near immaculate plunger frame Model 7 went for $10k on fleabay a while back. Haven't seen the swingarm bikes bring quite that much, they tend to be riders bikes rather than show bikes ?

All iron engines are an acquired taste - not fast, but a very pleasant ride. (not enough horsepower to vibrate ?). Plunger framed bikes are quite heavy - as I say of my Model 7 (when its together), 440 lbs and half the horsepower of a Commando....

Tinware for early Dommies is quite hard to find - that front fender (mudguard) will probably be hard to replace. Someone in the UK is supposed to be doing them, and some from India have appeared recently, but the shape and fit is apparently not too good. That back mudguard doesn't look right for the year either, probably off a featherbed. (similar, but not the same).

Again, since it apparently isn't running, engine/gearbox rebuild cost could be anything, and they can get very worn and expensive if run neglected.