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Oil pump on a Manx

Discussion in 'Other Norton Motorcycles' started by NKN, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    What is the good way to pull the oil pump out? Is it possible to pull it out with engine on the bike?


    [​IMG]
     
  2. bearflag

    bearflag

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  3. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Thanks Mike, was looking around before asking here and this one didn't come up.

    Do you know a place to find all the threads size of this bike, just thinking about it makes smoke my metric brains :rolleyes:
     
  4. bearflag

    bearflag

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    After years of messing with these beasts, I have a collection of mongrel taps and dies in BSW( Brit Standard Whitworth), BSF(Brit. Std. Fine), BSC( Brit Std. Cycle). Also found on the bike are BSP( Brit. Std. Pipe), BA( Brit. Assoc.) machine screws, and some weird thread on speedo/tach drive cables that I think is British Standard Brass, 1/2" x 26tpi. Find a thread gauge and it will be very helpful. Commandos had every known thread pattern and it will drive one nuts, American, British, and metric.
    Download this, very helpful:
     
  5. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    +++ My new bible +++
     
  6. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi NKN
    What year and model is your Manx?

    Burgs
     
  7. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Hi Burgs,
    Reading the number on the engine, G stands for 1952, no?

    It's a recent barn find, so for the model I don't really know if it's a 30 or a 40 yet. Are you holding kind of a register?

    Christian
     
  8. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi Christian
    No register but just keen to know what you have found out there.
    1952 would be DOHC long stroke, it has been a while since I have pulled the oil pump out of my 1955 short stroke, but I cannot remember any difficulties, but from memory it has a brass/bronze oil pump body, not the Mazak one, I am pretty certain I heated the case and it either fell out or I pulled it out the way it was explained in the previous information.
    Kept us informed, they are great old things.
    Burgs
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  9. bearflag

    bearflag

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    G followed by 11 = model 30
    G followed by 10 = model 40
    Will also have bore & stroke stamped on cases eg. 79 x 100 ( 500cc)
     
  10. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi
    Not certain on the SOHC but sometimes the serial numbers don't add up as with mine, it should have been K10M (40) but the frame and engine are both stamped K11M.
    London Science Museum, holder of the Norton record back when I contacted them, supplied the information for my Manx and all serial numbers added up (engine, gearbox, frame, shop engine numbers and fork number) but for the K10M.
    May be the person who stamped the serial numbers got it wrong?
    It also has a 82mm stroke and the odd bob conrod with what looks like a grease nipple, have been told to put the conrod on the wall as a memento, but it still works!

    looking forward to seeing what you have.
    Best Regards
    Burgs
     
  11. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Hi,
    We finally got a G10 stamped on the engine, so according to everybody it must be a 40 model.

    To help the simple minded guys who live in a metric world, did anyone report the different threads with their locations for this engine? Or is it time to do it?

    What kind of special tools do we need to strip the engine?
     
  12. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi Christian
    In 1946 all Manx Norton had a M added to the model number (or supposed to have) so if it is a Manx the model number should be G10M, G10 should indicate an International.
    Internationals all SOHC, is it DOHC or SOHC, either way still a desirable machine?
    Production Manx got DOHC in 1949 not later, made an error in earlier post.
    Best Regards
    Burgs
     
  13. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Hi Burgs,
    And what about a T? Like G10T 45XXX.

    Best regards,
    Christian
     
  14. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Christian
    Well T is really a good question, had a quick glance in "Norton Singles Roy Bacon" and nothing pops up there, I have a few other books I will check out that have some odd Norton in it.
    There were apparently four 1952 scramblers based on Manx crankcases and Inter alloy heads (350 and 500) in a modified 500T (Swing arm) frame but doubt you would be lucky to have scored one of those?
    Can you post some photos that might help.

    Burgs
     
  15. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Burgs,
    I've also been looking around to understand what the T stands for, unluckily at the moment.
    The four scramblers you are talking about, were you thinking of Les Archer one's?
    This bike, an off-road, looks like a bitza because it has an unknown frame. And all the pictures of Inter I've seen have the Dolls head gearbox, this one have an AMC one.

    Christian
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  16. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Burgs,
    Do you know the differences between a 40 and a 30 oil pump?
    Christian
     
  17. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi Christian
    The 1952 Scrambles project was a Norton only project, Les Archers Nortons were different (pg. 151 and 153. N.S. Roy Bacon)
    1948 on, the OHC 30M and 40M shared the same crankcase, this even continued with the crankcase of the short strokes, the only difference with them is, the oil scrapper that is cast in the bottom of the cases ,is machined to a different height due to the flywheel diameters, so pumps are the same (pg. 57 Norton Singles).
    These guys have what appears to be a good looking manual for Norton Internationals and Long Stroke Manx, might be worth looking at.
    https://www.bluespark.com.au/2013/06/norton-international-long-stroke-manx-workshop-manual/
    Andy Molnars Long Stroke Parts List.
    http://www.manx.co.uk/pdf/MPL-Long-Stroke-Manx.pdf

    Norton Singles by Roy Bacon is a good book to get hold of for all Norton singles.

    upload_2018-11-29_8-10-34.png
    1952 Manx Scrambler
    Burgs
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  18. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Hi Burgs,

    Looks like there are different Roy Bacon Norton Singles OHV & SV books. Mine is a 1995 edition, 8,54" x 6" (21cm x 15,3cm) with 55 pages:

    [​IMG]

    Do you have another one? With more pages?



    Thanks for the links, the Blue Spark team seems to have a lot of experience with vintage bikes, and Andy is quite close.



    Was asking the question about different oil pumps because like there is a spare half engine also, we just took the screws off each of them to discover that their lengths were not the same. Even if the engine's numbers have the same G10M.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Christian
     
  19. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi
    Yes different book I bought mine in the 80s from memory, it covers 1927 -1966 also Manx and Inters, 191 pages.
    upload_2018-11-30_7-30-26.png
    Not sure on the oil pumps as for the different bolts but if both G10M they should be the same!
    So having said that have you found the that they are G10M and not G10T?

    Burgs
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  20. NKN

    NKN

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I'll try to find your book, would learn a little more. The half engine, crankcases and crank shaft and rod I don't know. G10T is stamped on. The other engine needs to be stripped to learn a little more about it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018