Oil cooler

1up3down · May 19, 2016

I feel the burden, if there is one, of proof as to the necessity of an oil cooler on a normal usage Commando is on those that maintain a cooler IS necessary.

The proof that it is not is the default position - tens of thousands of Commandos over 50 years running without coolers and without definitive proof of engine damage or failure attributable to not running a cooler.

As far as oil filters are concerned - most everyone sees no negative in running with one and also because they are cheap well why not?

Hobot who used to post on this forum maintained they are unnecessary because they only catch and hold within larger particulates and that at point any engine damage would have already been done, a valid observation but seemingly at conflict with other preventive concepts...

And certainly motorcycles went on very long touring trips for the first 50 years of cycling without oil filters and arrived at their destinations

Personally, I rode my 1971 Commando without oil filter (because Norton did not fit one stock) for some 20K miles including a 4000 mile trip - again to no ill effect

maybe this discussion is in a way like points vs electronic ignition - the fact that nowadays EI is available does not mean it is a necessary "upgrade", especially considering the ease of roadside points replacement vs dealing with a failed Ei? or maybe this is a bad analogy...

JimC · May 19, 2016

Personally, I rode my 1971 Commando without oil filter (because Norton did not fit one stock) for some 20K miles including a 4000 mile trip - again to no ill effect

The problem with that statement is you consider no failures as no ill effects. Quite untrue. Failure is a go, no go situation, whereas ill effects would be gradual degradation, but still not failing. In other words you are saying since you Norton did not fail in those 20K miles it suffered no ill effects due to excessively hot oil. Pretty much like the guy who says the bolt is properly torqued since it isn't stripped.

Fast Eddie · May 19, 2016

Neither side will win guys. Neither side will change their mind as a result of continued debate here.

It was also not what the OP asked...

Jus' sayin' ...

JimC · May 19, 2016

I don't consider an oil cooler an absolute necessity. I do believe a Commando is capable of generating oil temps in excess of 220℉ measured in the tank. The petroleum engineer I spoke to cautioned oil temps in the tank should not exceed 200ºF. Same goes for an oil filter. Not a necessity, but you're better off with one than without one.

Dances with Shrapnel · May 19, 2016

JimC said:
I do believe a Commando is capable of generating oil temps in excess of 220℉ measured in the tank.

So this is a belief; so what exactly did your measurement indicate when you mentioned earlier that you had measured it?

montelatici · May 19, 2016

JimC said:
montelatici said:

As a Norton Commando owner since 1971, I can guarantee that unless you live in the Sahara desert (maybe even then), an oil cooler is an unnecessary complication. It won't hurt except for the additional potential sources of leaks, but it won't help. I installed one on my 1971 Commando, Chevy Corvair oil coolers were available from Chevy dealers back then and fit nicely across the down tubes, and it did not make any difference in terms on engine longevity compared to later Nortons that I owned, including my current 1975 MK 3.

Click to expand...

I'd be interested upon what you base your statement that a Commando has no need of an oil cooler. Did you actually do any oil temp measuring? Before and after cooler installation?

I said engine longevity compared to Nortons to which I didn't install a cooler. At the end of the day, that is what determines if it is useful or not.

ashman · May 19, 2016

Well all I know is running a oil cooler on all my British motorcycles I have always got long life out of my engines, my Norton has over 150,000 miles now after 40 years of ownership and the motor is on its first rebore at 40 thu over and rod bearings are still stock size although they been replaced, the main bearings were still good but they were replaced when the crank was balanced, plus my motor isn't stock, has hot cam, head work but am still running the stock valves that came with the motor from the factory but have replaced the guides 2x so far in the 40 years, so running my motor with a oil cooler and lowering the oil temp has help me get long life out of my Norton, we have very hot summers here and our winters are very mild, I ride all my bikes hard when out, it's the way I ride and in my younger days when I first brought my Norton (at 17 years old) it was a regular thing to do big burn outs (young and silly) on my Norton.

Ashley

Dances with Shrapnel · May 19, 2016

my motor with a oil cooler lowering the oil temp.

over 150,000 miles
after 40 years
rebore at 40 thu over
rod bearings been replaced,
main bearings were replaced
replaced the guides 2x so far

Well it is apparently clear the diagnosis is........... your oil has been too cool.

Humoring you Ashley.

That's a decent run.

cNwRestomod · May 19, 2016

Fast Eddie is right on. No amount of discussion will sway either side. Equally important is the oil that is used in the bike and that has its followers as well. As everyone knows, many purists believe in 40 W or 50 W or straight weight, non-synthetic oil whereas others prefer multi-grade synthetic and within those categories, oil brands. From what I have read, I use Redline 20/50 synthetic and change the oil and Napa Gold filter every 1000 miles. I also use synthetic Lucas transmission oil and mix it 50:50 with Lucas synthetic stabilizer and change the transmission oil every 1000 miles. For fuel, I use Chevron Supreme Plus because it contains no ethanol and has the highest (94) octane rating in Canada. And on it goes. Everyone's opinion is valid and if an oil cooler tickles your fancy, have at 'er and throw one on!

Fast Eddie · May 19, 2016

cNwRestomod said:
Fast Eddie is right on. No amount of discussion will sway either side. Equally important is the oil that is used in the bike and that has its followers as well. As everyone knows, many purists believe in 40 W or 50 W or straight weight, non-synthetic oil whereas others prefer multi-grade synthetic and within those categories, oil brands. From what I have read, I use Redline 20/50 synthetic and change the oil and Napa Gold filter every 1000 miles. I also use synthetic Lucas transmission oil and mix it 50:50 with Lucas synthetic stabilizer and change the transmission oil every 1000 miles. For fuel, I use Chevron Supreme Plus because it contains no ethanol and has the highest (94) octane rating in Canada. And on it goes. Everyone's opinion is valid and if an oil cooler tickles your fancy, have at 'er and throw one on!

Bryan, I'm a Redline fan too. Just a quick point, in case you aren't aware; it is important to use their motorcycle oil and not their motor oil, in Norton's. Their motorcycle oil contains very high levels of zinc (and other additives) that are required to protect our cams and followers. Motor oil does not.
And BTW, there is really no need to change it at 1000 miles...

Dances with Shrapnel · May 19, 2016

cNwRestomod said:
if an oil cooler tickles your fancy, have at 'er and throw one on!

With a thermostat flow control.

L.E.N. · May 20, 2016

I keep a piece of gorilla tape over my oil cooler to block air flow until the hot months of summer. similar to what i do for my MGB-GT's radiator to allow the heater to warm up in winter

cjandme · May 20, 2016

This is a shameful plug, but I bought Pete v.'s oil cooler (quality cooler at a good price) because I was preparing my MKlll for the long lines of stop and go traffic in and around Yokohama & Tokyo last summer. Work intervened and I never got it on the road. Now we live 400 miles north (well past Fukushima) where it is much cooler and waaay less traffic. So the oil cooler is for sale :roll: I will list it in the for sale section if anyone is interested.

ashman · May 20, 2016

Dances with Shrapnel said:
my motor with a oil cooler lowering the oil temp.

over 150,000 miles
after 40 years
rebore at 40 thu over
rod bearings been replaced,
main bearings were replaced
replaced the guides 2x so far

Well it is apparently clear the diagnosis is........... your oil has been too cool.

Humoring you Ashley.

That's a decent run.

All good, like what people are sayin we all have our own throughts on this subject, me a oil cooler is important, if you think running without a oil cooler is good then all good, no twisting of the arms from me, it's like the subject of me running my Joe Hunt, I love it sticking out the side but most hate it sticking out the side, every one has their opinions but the biggest knockers are the ones that have never run one before and the same goes with the oil coolers debate, just love this forum.

Ashley

Danno · May 20, 2016

I think you can get by without an oil cooler, but the longer you ride and the higher your horsepower, and the hotter the weather, the more the oil cooler (with a thermostat) makes good sense. Running one also increases your oil capacity somewhat and that's not a bad thing, either.

74ok · May 20, 2016

Dances with Shrapnel said:
my motor with a oil cooler lowering the oil temp.

over 150,000 miles
after 40 years
rebore at 40 thu over
rod bearings been replaced,
main bearings were replaced
replaced the guides 2x so far

Well it is apparently clear the diagnosis is........... your oil has been too cool.

Humoring you Ashley.

That's a decent run.

amazing bike & info