New laws in Australia gone mad
- Thread starter bluemax
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petejohno said:
This ultimately potentially affects all riders worldwide.
And LAB has chosen to keep it here.
Some disruptive elements, who don't actually ride bikes on the road, have tried to drag it into grubby politics.
Its where this legislation goes that needs to be the focus.
Some expert or other was only yesterday calling these laws a failure.
In political terms, thats the kiss of death...
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2008
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I also think this is important, not just for Queenslanders but for anyone who enjoys riding motorcycles on the road anywhere, and indeed anyone who cares about civil liberties generally. Some people might not like belonging to a campaign group, but if everyone affected speaks with one voice, and they put up a decent fight, there is some chance of their campaign succeeding. If not, no chance.
- Joined
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OK this might be a bit long winded but it is the short form version of a response received from a Legal Barrister when asked about the Laws and the ramifications to the ordinary person. Be it a legitimate bike club or any organisation or just 3 people getting together.
Read it and think if doesn't apply to you . Or skip to the end and read the examples.
APPLICATION OF THE VLAD ACT
The Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment Act 2013 ("VLAD") was the first piece of the
Queensland Government's anti-blkle legislation.'
What does the VlAD Act do?
The VlAD Act is an unprecedented mandatory sentencing regime. It provides that people who are
defined as "vicious lawless associates" will automatically have to serve 15 years in prison in addition
to their standard sentence.2 If they are deemed to be an officer bearer of the relevant association,
they will automatically be required to serve 25 years in custody in addition to their standard
sentence." The mandatory additional sentence of 15 or 25 years imprisonment must be imposed
even if the person is not sentenced to a period of imprisonment for the original offence.
Unless the person becomes an informer, they are not eligible for parole during the additional
sentence and, accordingly, wilt have to serve the entire 15 or 25 years in custody.
Relevance to "Bikies"
The recent antl-blkle legislation, including the VLAD Act, has been sold to the public as a necessary
piece of legislative artillery in the Queensland Government's "war on bikies". However, the
extensive mandatory detention powers in the VlAD Act are not limited in any way to alleged
"criminal bikie gangs". You do not have to be a member or associate of one of the 26 motorcycle
clubs which have been declared as criminal organisations to be classed as a vicious lawless associate.
The declaration of these 26 clubs as criminal organisations and the resulting new criminal offences
and increased penalties for their participants are part of a separate legislative scheme contained in
the Criminal Law (Criminal Organisations Disruption) Amendment Act and the Criminal Law (Criminal
Organisations Disruption) and Other Legislation Amendment Act. The ambit of the VlAD Act is in no
way limited to members or associates of these clubs.
So then, who is a Vicious Lawless Associate?
A person is deemed to be a vicious lawless associate" if the following three conditions are satisfied:
1. The person commits a declared offence.
The relevant offences are listed in Schedule 1 of the VLAD. The listed offences include
serious offences such as murder and various sexual offences but also include the offences of
affray (which is taking part in a fight in public, a misdemeanour for which the maximum
penalty is one year imprisonment); assault." dangerous operation of a motor vehicle;
receiving tainted property and possessing dangerous drugs. It is not unusual for people with
limited or no criminal history to be fined or to be sentenced to community based orders
such as probation or community service rather than be imprisoned for these latter offences.
2. The person was a participant in the affairs of a relevant association when the offence was
committed.
As flagged earlier, a relevant association is not a criminal bikie organisation. It is any
corporation; unincorporated association; club or league; or group of 3 or more persons. The
definition of a relevant association does not contain any requirement that the group,
corporation, club, or 3 friends, as the case may be, engaged in illegal activity. Groups such as
school P&Cs, swimming clubs, RSLs and recreational motorcycle clubs are all relevant
associations under the VLAD Act definitions. As Queensland law Society President, Annette
Bradfield, noted, the legislation is so broad that it could apply to virtually any type of club or
association.
3. The offence was committed in the course of participating in the affairs of the relevant
association.
If these conditions are satisfied, a person is deemed to be a vicious lawless associate unless they can
prove that engaging in certain offences is not one of purposes of the relevant association.
Your natural inclination may be to think that regardless of the broad initial definitions, the act will
only catch career criminals who are in organisations whose clear purpose is to engage criminal
behaviour, as has been alleged in respect of certain bikie clubs. I think that it is highly unlikely that
there is any organisation in existence in which declares that engaging in criminal activities is one of
its purposes. But significantly, the police and prosecution do not have to prove that one of the
purposes of an organisation is engaging in criminal activities, the charged individual must prove that
this is not the case.
That is, assault occasioning bodily harm. Bodily harm means any bodily injury that interferes with health or
comfort.
Here are some practical examples of how the Act may apply in relatively minor situations.
Example 1
John Smith is a member of the Yeronga Bulls Rugby Union Club. After losing the elimination final to
the Sherwood Falcons, John and his teammates head to the RE hotel for their official end-of-season
function. A number of the members of the Sherwood Falcons are also having celebratory drinks at
the RE. During the course of the evening an argument breaks out between the two groups about the
afternoon's game. The argument turns physical and John is arrested for the offence of affray. John is
an engineering student, with no criminal history. He pleads guilty in Brisbane Magistrates Court and
receives a $1,500 fine with no conviction recorded. Unfortunately for John, the VLAD act is
enlivened. His football club is a relevant association and he has committed the declared offence of
affray while participating in the team's affairs at their official function. Unless he can prove
otherwise, he is a vicious lawful associate and will be required to serve 15 years in prison.
As mentioned previously, a natural reaction, perhaps, is to assume that John wouldn't have a
problem, as engaging in fights in public is not likeIy to be regarded to be one of the purposes of the
Yeronga Bulls Reserves. But the Prosecution do not have to prove that it is. It is up to John to prove
that this is not the case. Imagine then that John or any of his teammates had been involved in an
altercation after a game on a previous occasion or that there had been any vaguely threatening text
messages or face-book updates (from any of the team-mates) concerning the Sherwood Falcons or
any other teams. In those circumstances, there is a real prospect that John would be not be able to
prove that he isn't a vicious lawless associate, and accordingly the judge or magistrate would have
no choice but to sentence John to 15 years imprisonment in addition to the fine. If John happened
to also be a treasurer of the club, he would be spending the next 25 years in jail.
Example 2
Daniel Jones is a member of the Northern Suburbs Commodore Car Enthusiasts Club. Daniel
engages in online forums on the organisation's website and displays his car at the regular show and
shine events. On one Thursday evening, during the show and shine, Daniel gets in his car and
performs a burnout on the road. He is seen by a passing police patrol and followed. Daniel attempts
to evade the police for a short period of time during which he speeds. After being overtaken by the
police vehicle he pulls over and is charged and pleads guilty to the offence of dangerous operation of
a motor vehicle. He is sentenced to a 6 month wholly suspended sentence in the District Court but
because the offence was committed while he was participating in the affairs of the car club, unless
he can prove, otherwise, he will be regarded as a vicious lawless associate and spend the next 15 or
25 in prison. Again, if the police had previously been required to shut down show and shine events
due to street racing or there were posts on the online forums in which burnouts, racing or other
dangerous racing were boasted about, Daniel may have difficulty proving that dangerous driving was
not a purpose of the club and will automatically spend 15 to 25 years in custody.
Example 3
The Velocette Owners Club of Australia ("VOCA") is a recreational motorcycle club whose members
frequently participate in rides which are organised under the auspices of the club. During the club's
annual ride from Brisbane to Gympie, various prizes are awarded to a number of participants. These
include a prize for the oldest combined age of bike and rider, a prize for the rider who takes the
most spills and the Velocette prize, for the participant who rides their bike in the manner intended
by the bike's maker.
Anthony West and Troy Davis are two members of the VOCA. Anthony is 47 years old. He is the
Secretary of the Queensland Centre of VOCA. He owns his own plumbing business and he is married
with 3 primary school aged children. He has no criminal history and has never previously had any
contact with police. Troy is 35 years old and is a civil engineer. He is engaged and as yet has no
children. When he was 19 years old, he was charged with a public nuisance offence for urinating in
public. He pleaded guilty in the Magistrates Court and received a good behaviour bond with no
conviction recorded.
During the annual ride, a group of riders find themselves alone on a long, straight stretch of a two-
lane motorway. Anthony and Troy, who are towards the back of the group, decide to move up to
the front of the group and, in the process, make a play for the Velocette prize. They pull out, onto
the wrong side of the road in order to pass the rest of the group, and the two riders speed up the
highway. In the process, they pass a patrol car which is stopped on the side of the highway. The
patrol, seeing the two bikes speeding down the wrong side of the highway, pulls them over. The
officer informs them of their rights, of what he has observed and of the fact that he intends to
charge them with dangerous driving. He asks them about the manner in which they are riding and
the group they are with. Anthony explains that they are members of the VOCA and that they are
taking part in their annual ride from Brisbane to Gympie. In terms of the manner in which they were
riding, Anthony, who has never previously had any contact with the police, makes mention of the
Velocette prize, and of the fact that they were attempting to ride their vehicfe in the manner in
which the maker intended, in order to vie for this prize.
Once again, the VLAD Act is enlivened. The VOCA is a relevant association and the declared offence
of dangerous operation of a motor vehicle was committed while Anthony and Troy were
participating in the VOCA's annual ride. Unfortunately, due to Anthony's admission to the police
officer that their dangerous driving was committed in pursuit of the official Velocette prize, they are
likely to have significant difficulty in proving to a court that dangerous driving is not one of the
purposes of the VOCA.
In ordinary circumstances, Anthony and Troy would be likely to receive a fine and no conviction
recorded. However, under the VLAD Act, a Judge would have no option but to sentence Anthony, as
club Secretary, to 25 years imprisonment and Troy to 15 years.
Relevance of co-operation with law enforcement authorities
The only avenue for a person to be released on parole prior to the completion of their entire 15 or
25-year prison term is if they co-operate with law enforcement authorities in investigations into
other criminal activities involving declared offences.t ln other words, the only way in which a person
can become eligible for an early release is if they become a police informer. It is significant to note
that people who are caught under the Act who have otherwise been law-abiding citizens, such as in
the examples above, are not going to be able to avail themselves of these discounts as it is highly
unlikely that they will be able to provide the police with any worthwhile criminal intelligence.
Concluding thoughts
The anti-bikie legislation, including the VLAD Act, has been sold by the Government as a highly
targeted legislative package designed to disrupt and dismantle the illegal activities of outlaw
motorcycle dubs. As the examples above demonstrate, this is clearly not the case. The incredibly
broad drafting of the legislation and the fact that the onus of proof is on the defendant to prove that
the association does not purposefully conduct illegal activities means that this act will apply in a
whole host of circumstances which may never have been envisaged by the government, and
individuals, who are law abiding citizens, may find themselves behind bars for up to 25 years as a
result of committing relatively minor offences.
Read it and think if doesn't apply to you . Or skip to the end and read the examples.
APPLICATION OF THE VLAD ACT
The Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment Act 2013 ("VLAD") was the first piece of the
Queensland Government's anti-blkle legislation.'
What does the VlAD Act do?
The VlAD Act is an unprecedented mandatory sentencing regime. It provides that people who are
defined as "vicious lawless associates" will automatically have to serve 15 years in prison in addition
to their standard sentence.2 If they are deemed to be an officer bearer of the relevant association,
they will automatically be required to serve 25 years in custody in addition to their standard
sentence." The mandatory additional sentence of 15 or 25 years imprisonment must be imposed
even if the person is not sentenced to a period of imprisonment for the original offence.
Unless the person becomes an informer, they are not eligible for parole during the additional
sentence and, accordingly, wilt have to serve the entire 15 or 25 years in custody.
Relevance to "Bikies"
The recent antl-blkle legislation, including the VLAD Act, has been sold to the public as a necessary
piece of legislative artillery in the Queensland Government's "war on bikies". However, the
extensive mandatory detention powers in the VlAD Act are not limited in any way to alleged
"criminal bikie gangs". You do not have to be a member or associate of one of the 26 motorcycle
clubs which have been declared as criminal organisations to be classed as a vicious lawless associate.
The declaration of these 26 clubs as criminal organisations and the resulting new criminal offences
and increased penalties for their participants are part of a separate legislative scheme contained in
the Criminal Law (Criminal Organisations Disruption) Amendment Act and the Criminal Law (Criminal
Organisations Disruption) and Other Legislation Amendment Act. The ambit of the VlAD Act is in no
way limited to members or associates of these clubs.
So then, who is a Vicious Lawless Associate?
A person is deemed to be a vicious lawless associate" if the following three conditions are satisfied:
1. The person commits a declared offence.
The relevant offences are listed in Schedule 1 of the VLAD. The listed offences include
serious offences such as murder and various sexual offences but also include the offences of
affray (which is taking part in a fight in public, a misdemeanour for which the maximum
penalty is one year imprisonment); assault." dangerous operation of a motor vehicle;
receiving tainted property and possessing dangerous drugs. It is not unusual for people with
limited or no criminal history to be fined or to be sentenced to community based orders
such as probation or community service rather than be imprisoned for these latter offences.
2. The person was a participant in the affairs of a relevant association when the offence was
committed.
As flagged earlier, a relevant association is not a criminal bikie organisation. It is any
corporation; unincorporated association; club or league; or group of 3 or more persons. The
definition of a relevant association does not contain any requirement that the group,
corporation, club, or 3 friends, as the case may be, engaged in illegal activity. Groups such as
school P&Cs, swimming clubs, RSLs and recreational motorcycle clubs are all relevant
associations under the VLAD Act definitions. As Queensland law Society President, Annette
Bradfield, noted, the legislation is so broad that it could apply to virtually any type of club or
association.
3. The offence was committed in the course of participating in the affairs of the relevant
association.
If these conditions are satisfied, a person is deemed to be a vicious lawless associate unless they can
prove that engaging in certain offences is not one of purposes of the relevant association.
Your natural inclination may be to think that regardless of the broad initial definitions, the act will
only catch career criminals who are in organisations whose clear purpose is to engage criminal
behaviour, as has been alleged in respect of certain bikie clubs. I think that it is highly unlikely that
there is any organisation in existence in which declares that engaging in criminal activities is one of
its purposes. But significantly, the police and prosecution do not have to prove that one of the
purposes of an organisation is engaging in criminal activities, the charged individual must prove that
this is not the case.
That is, assault occasioning bodily harm. Bodily harm means any bodily injury that interferes with health or
comfort.
Here are some practical examples of how the Act may apply in relatively minor situations.
Example 1
John Smith is a member of the Yeronga Bulls Rugby Union Club. After losing the elimination final to
the Sherwood Falcons, John and his teammates head to the RE hotel for their official end-of-season
function. A number of the members of the Sherwood Falcons are also having celebratory drinks at
the RE. During the course of the evening an argument breaks out between the two groups about the
afternoon's game. The argument turns physical and John is arrested for the offence of affray. John is
an engineering student, with no criminal history. He pleads guilty in Brisbane Magistrates Court and
receives a $1,500 fine with no conviction recorded. Unfortunately for John, the VLAD act is
enlivened. His football club is a relevant association and he has committed the declared offence of
affray while participating in the team's affairs at their official function. Unless he can prove
otherwise, he is a vicious lawful associate and will be required to serve 15 years in prison.
As mentioned previously, a natural reaction, perhaps, is to assume that John wouldn't have a
problem, as engaging in fights in public is not likeIy to be regarded to be one of the purposes of the
Yeronga Bulls Reserves. But the Prosecution do not have to prove that it is. It is up to John to prove
that this is not the case. Imagine then that John or any of his teammates had been involved in an
altercation after a game on a previous occasion or that there had been any vaguely threatening text
messages or face-book updates (from any of the team-mates) concerning the Sherwood Falcons or
any other teams. In those circumstances, there is a real prospect that John would be not be able to
prove that he isn't a vicious lawless associate, and accordingly the judge or magistrate would have
no choice but to sentence John to 15 years imprisonment in addition to the fine. If John happened
to also be a treasurer of the club, he would be spending the next 25 years in jail.
Example 2
Daniel Jones is a member of the Northern Suburbs Commodore Car Enthusiasts Club. Daniel
engages in online forums on the organisation's website and displays his car at the regular show and
shine events. On one Thursday evening, during the show and shine, Daniel gets in his car and
performs a burnout on the road. He is seen by a passing police patrol and followed. Daniel attempts
to evade the police for a short period of time during which he speeds. After being overtaken by the
police vehicle he pulls over and is charged and pleads guilty to the offence of dangerous operation of
a motor vehicle. He is sentenced to a 6 month wholly suspended sentence in the District Court but
because the offence was committed while he was participating in the affairs of the car club, unless
he can prove, otherwise, he will be regarded as a vicious lawless associate and spend the next 15 or
25 in prison. Again, if the police had previously been required to shut down show and shine events
due to street racing or there were posts on the online forums in which burnouts, racing or other
dangerous racing were boasted about, Daniel may have difficulty proving that dangerous driving was
not a purpose of the club and will automatically spend 15 to 25 years in custody.
Example 3
The Velocette Owners Club of Australia ("VOCA") is a recreational motorcycle club whose members
frequently participate in rides which are organised under the auspices of the club. During the club's
annual ride from Brisbane to Gympie, various prizes are awarded to a number of participants. These
include a prize for the oldest combined age of bike and rider, a prize for the rider who takes the
most spills and the Velocette prize, for the participant who rides their bike in the manner intended
by the bike's maker.
Anthony West and Troy Davis are two members of the VOCA. Anthony is 47 years old. He is the
Secretary of the Queensland Centre of VOCA. He owns his own plumbing business and he is married
with 3 primary school aged children. He has no criminal history and has never previously had any
contact with police. Troy is 35 years old and is a civil engineer. He is engaged and as yet has no
children. When he was 19 years old, he was charged with a public nuisance offence for urinating in
public. He pleaded guilty in the Magistrates Court and received a good behaviour bond with no
conviction recorded.
During the annual ride, a group of riders find themselves alone on a long, straight stretch of a two-
lane motorway. Anthony and Troy, who are towards the back of the group, decide to move up to
the front of the group and, in the process, make a play for the Velocette prize. They pull out, onto
the wrong side of the road in order to pass the rest of the group, and the two riders speed up the
highway. In the process, they pass a patrol car which is stopped on the side of the highway. The
patrol, seeing the two bikes speeding down the wrong side of the highway, pulls them over. The
officer informs them of their rights, of what he has observed and of the fact that he intends to
charge them with dangerous driving. He asks them about the manner in which they are riding and
the group they are with. Anthony explains that they are members of the VOCA and that they are
taking part in their annual ride from Brisbane to Gympie. In terms of the manner in which they were
riding, Anthony, who has never previously had any contact with the police, makes mention of the
Velocette prize, and of the fact that they were attempting to ride their vehicfe in the manner in
which the maker intended, in order to vie for this prize.
Once again, the VLAD Act is enlivened. The VOCA is a relevant association and the declared offence
of dangerous operation of a motor vehicle was committed while Anthony and Troy were
participating in the VOCA's annual ride. Unfortunately, due to Anthony's admission to the police
officer that their dangerous driving was committed in pursuit of the official Velocette prize, they are
likely to have significant difficulty in proving to a court that dangerous driving is not one of the
purposes of the VOCA.
In ordinary circumstances, Anthony and Troy would be likely to receive a fine and no conviction
recorded. However, under the VLAD Act, a Judge would have no option but to sentence Anthony, as
club Secretary, to 25 years imprisonment and Troy to 15 years.
Relevance of co-operation with law enforcement authorities
The only avenue for a person to be released on parole prior to the completion of their entire 15 or
25-year prison term is if they co-operate with law enforcement authorities in investigations into
other criminal activities involving declared offences.t ln other words, the only way in which a person
can become eligible for an early release is if they become a police informer. It is significant to note
that people who are caught under the Act who have otherwise been law-abiding citizens, such as in
the examples above, are not going to be able to avail themselves of these discounts as it is highly
unlikely that they will be able to provide the police with any worthwhile criminal intelligence.
Concluding thoughts
The anti-bikie legislation, including the VLAD Act, has been sold by the Government as a highly
targeted legislative package designed to disrupt and dismantle the illegal activities of outlaw
motorcycle dubs. As the examples above demonstrate, this is clearly not the case. The incredibly
broad drafting of the legislation and the fact that the onus of proof is on the defendant to prove that
the association does not purposefully conduct illegal activities means that this act will apply in a
whole host of circumstances which may never have been envisaged by the government, and
individuals, who are law abiding citizens, may find themselves behind bars for up to 25 years as a
result of committing relatively minor offences.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
ugh just as I thot a win win for govt and its policy developers & supporters.
Shoot if I had as evil a mind as that bunch I'd easy issue ridding permissions then plant a bad apple to act up that wants out of jail for a hay day harvesting.
https://www.google.com/#q=prison+for+pr ... +australia
Shoot if I had as evil a mind as that bunch I'd easy issue ridding permissions then plant a bad apple to act up that wants out of jail for a hay day harvesting.
https://www.google.com/#q=prison+for+pr ... +australia
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
- Messages
- 13,193
I have never voted for the Liberal Party, and if I ever get locked up under those laws they will have a real problem on their hands. If you have a victim's mindset, you will be a victim. The biggest and nastiest politicians usually spent time in jail, the Liberal Party creates its own problems. If it is not me, it will be somebody else - perhaps an Adolph Hitler or Trotsky.
When they got elected the voters knew what they were, there were no secrets - only the desire to believe bullshit. John Howard clearly set the tone with his anti-terrorist legislation and Workchoices - their whole mantra is about coercion, never motivation and leadership.
When they got elected the voters knew what they were, there were no secrets - only the desire to believe bullshit. John Howard clearly set the tone with his anti-terrorist legislation and Workchoices - their whole mantra is about coercion, never motivation and leadership.
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2008
- Messages
- 834
Don't get too carried away with thinking there's purity to be found to the far left or right Alcotrel. It's more like a closed circle. Fascism at the extreme right and Communism to the left. Either way you end up with a dictatorship. Nothing's perfect.
Anyway, back to the loon of the moment:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-06/q ... ud/5243662
Anyway, back to the loon of the moment:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-06/q ... ud/5243662
Sounds like the system is perfect then!
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 922
not-ron said:
Voting is compulsory in Australia.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
This thread touches on deepest issues of a free people under valid Govt vs subject citizens under hidden private law stacked against them. There is funny business of what type of authority actually runs the show. Its similar to anywhere there are BAR Franchise legal system involved. Here's short article that reviews BAR cards running the show for their own benefit.
http://www.independentaustralia.net/pol ... wyers,5652
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2012
- Messages
- 1,132
not-ron said:
Vote? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Vote. That's a good one. I've voted plenty of times and the only thing that ever changes are the faces of the bureaucrats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy
http://www.examiner.com/article/not-vot ... ur-success
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- Jun 30, 2012
- Messages
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davamb said:
The only reason I would ever fight in a war is for democracy. Authoritarianism must be opposed whether from left or right. Currently in Australia the attempt to impose it is coming from the right with the help of one religious organization already noted for it.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
- Messages
- 13,193
There is a conundrum which exists right throughout society - it is the balance between democracy and control. ' Authoritarianism stifles creativity'.
I'm not a leftie, I enjoy a dollar as much as anybody else. However some things are worth doing just because they are good things to do.
I'm not a leftie, I enjoy a dollar as much as anybody else. However some things are worth doing just because they are good things to do.
- Joined
- May 1, 2013
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pommie john said:
Voting is not compulsory in Australia. What is compulsory, at the risk of a small fine (I think $20) is attendance at the polling booth, and getting your name ticked off the electoral roll.
I'm not too sure just how democratic the so called "compulsory voting" system is, to me it encourages an uninformed, uncaring vote. Personally I always vote, to me there has been too much blood spilt in achieving a free vote to ignore the process. It seems a tragedy that the ideal of democracy gets bent to achieve the personal ambitions of a few barstewards.
Don't get me started on Pollie pay and benefits though!!
cheers
wakeup
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 922
wakeup said:
I stand corrected. Since my citizenship has recently been approved, I need to know stuff like that.
- Status