NEC NORTON

cliffa said:
How much though?
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At the NEC was Crighton's new rotary track bike. £90,000 to you sir and you can't even ride it down the local pub.

Is it just me or would anyone else like a Norton (or AJS, Rudge etc) with a blisteringly quick electric installation and a classic faired race bike styling to hide all the unpleasantness?
 
Clive said:
At the NEC was Crighton's new rotary track bike. £90,000 to you sir and you can't even ride it down the local pub.

Is it just me or would anyone else like a Norton (or AJS, Rudge etc) with a blisteringly quick electric installation and a classic faired race bike styling to hide all the unpleasantness?
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Having recently bought an E mountain bike I can see the the attraction :) So, the answer would be yes (and I suppose the motor could be made more attractive anyway).
 
Clive said:
At the NEC was Crighton's new rotary track bike. £90,000 to you sir and you can't even ride it down the local pub.

Is it just me or would anyone else like a Norton (or AJS, Rudge etc) with a blisteringly quick electric installation and a classic faired race bike styling to hide all the unpleasantness?
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No you’re not alone, I’ve also thought that you could basically have something very close to a fully faired Manx but EV powered.

Not sure what the weight and / or weight distribution issues might be though.

Certainly one way of solving the track day noise issues !

This is the closest thing I’ve seen, I saw it in the Barber museum in the USA, took a double / triple look to realise it wasn’t ICE powered…

www.autoevolution.com

Moto Electra Racing Attempts the Fastest Continental Crossing on an Electric Bike

Inspired by the first continental crossing in a gas-powered car back in 1903, Moto Electra Racing will set out from Jacksonville, Florida to the Santa Monica Pier in California, on the 3rd of June.
www.autoevolution.com www.autoevolution.com
 
Manufacturers are hiding their engines already, even on naked bikes, just look at the Norton V4CR.

My hypothesis is they’re trying to develop their brand images in such a way that they’ll still appeal when they’re EVs.

In other words… they‘ve already started weening us off of ICEs !!
 
Fast Eddie said:
Manufacturers are hiding their engines already, even on naked bikes, just look at the Norton V4CR.

My hypothesis is they’re trying to develop their brand images in such a way that they’ll still appeal when they’re EVs.

In other words… they‘ve already started weening us off of ICEs !!
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And making filler caps look like charge sockets..... And fitting silencers that silence......
 
Clive said:
This debate can never come to a conclusion as, to state the obvious, everyone is looking for something different. As a British rider I have a nostalgia for a traditionally British bike cos that's what I grew up with and that's what Dad rode and at one time British bikes were the best in the world on the road and track. So owning a Norton still pleases this subconsciously held fact for me. Wearing my Godtop jacket and Lewis Leathers boots hooks into a desire for the time when life was so much simpler and the future held so much promise.
Customers from other countries will want to buy a British bike because of a desire to buy into the British image and may actually be more demanding that the product is as British as it can be. Interestingly I haven't heard anyone on the forum complain that Norton are using Ohlin suspension instead of a British manufacturer so there is a degree of 'It must be British yet I can accept some compromises'.

If you are buying a 961/Commando then you are buying into an image of a British tradition and it's down to how deep you want to go :- Is the name enough like the AJS badge on the pretty little Chinese café racers or the French built Brough Superior or my Indian built Harley Davidson? Are you happy with a bought-in engine assembled into a British built frame? There is also a degree of, dare I say, bias against certain countries so a 'precision engineered' German engine might be acceptable yet a 'cheap mass produced' engine from the Japanese (who killed our industry) not so. We know that any country is capable of building a quality power unit but again what we're buying into is an image with Norton.

Stuck record time - I draw a parallel with Morgan Sportscars who tried to update their design but their customers overseas wanted a traditional look but were happy to have a BMW/ S&S powerplant as it gave reliability and performance.

So based on the above my gut feeling is that if we could build a traditional looking Commando in Britain using a traditional looking engine from, say, Germany which gave us really excellent performance and reliability then that would satisfy most buyers.

FYI

From my conversations with Norton a few 961 owners were consulted on their experiences with the bike. They then got a third party company to test bikes on the road and track and confirmed the issues which had been raised were true. Unlike the previous regime they admit that there are definitely issues like the rocker bushing and fraying throttle cables which they are fixing. For the latter updated throttle bodies are being produced. A batch of 961s which were built using existing parts were not released and have been standing in the factory until the quality issues have been addressed. Many people have told me that I'm gullible so I suppose I must be but really think New Norton are going in the right direction.
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So true. People get very illogical about country of origin discussion.
Re the idea of using a German built engine for reliability- maybe at one time, however BMW today, along with Ducati sit very close to the bottom of all brands in terms of motorcycle reliability. Harley builds a much more reliable bike than BMW does.

I see lots of shit thrown at Triumph for building in Thailand but a French built copy (Godet)of a British bike engine stuck in a copy of a Swiss designed frame is the Holy Grail?
Not much Brit left in those , but I've not seen any negative comments along the lines Triumph gets, for some reason, even though the Thai bikes have proven to be well built and incredibly reliable. Even the made in UK cranks in the Thai bikes hold up OK:)

Glen
 
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Voodooo said:
I’m aware of all of that. The point is, it’s Kawasaki. I’d much rather it be a British brand and not Japanese. I know. I sound bad.
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No, I don't think that sounds bad. I would not have bought a 961 had it used a Kawasaki engine. The parallel British twin was the experience I sought as I had never had one
 
worntorn said:
So true. People get very illogical about country of origin discussion.
Re the idea of using a German built engine for reliability- maybe at one time, however BMW today, along with Ducati sit very close to the bottom of all brands in terms of motorcycle reliability. Harley builds a much more reliable bike than BMW does.

I see lots of shit thrown at Triumph for building in Thailand but a French built copy (Godet)of a British bike engine stuck in a copy of a Swiss designed frame is the Holy Grail?
Not much Brit left in those , but I've not seen any negative comments along the lines Triumph gets, for some reason, even though the Thai bikes have proven to be well built and incredibly reliable. Even the made in UK cranks in the Thai bikes hold up OK:)

Glen
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Eglis were always Swiss based bitsas Glen, so a very different kettle of fish.

And Godet have never displayed the Union flag or claimed to be building British bikes, so zero hypocrisy there (but by the way, there is a LOT of British content in them).

This is the point we always get down to Glen; the issue for many with Thaiumph is not that they’re not made in Meriden, its the simultaneous facts of moving very good and well proven production out of Britain… for no reason other than cost… whilst simultaneously selling the British brand to the enth degree.

That level of hypocrisy winds plenty up. Period.

I totally get why you like the bikes, as do plenty of others. But I don’t get why you can’t see why that winds some people up !
 
I for one wouldn’t kick this out of the shed for having a Japanese engine…

NEC NORTON
 
Fast Eddie said:
Has anyone said otherwise ?
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Fast Eddie said:
Has anyone said otherwise ?
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I'm not seeing any hypocrisy, they aren't hiding anything or making false claims.
The bikes are designed in UK and built in Thailand or the UK from components sourced from all over the world.
That last part is the same as every other manufacturer in the world.
My UK built 955i has a very nice raised UK full colour flag built into the cowl and several other indications of Britishdom. It also has a label stating that it was manufactured in the UK.
The Thai assembled Thruxton has the serial number label " Made in Thailand" and that's it for country identification.
They could easily have slapped Union Jacks all over it ,as with the Daytona, but didn't.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
I'm not seeing any hypocrisy, they aren't hiding anything or making false claims.
The bikes are designed in UK and built in Thailand or the UK from components sourced from all over the world.
That last part is the same as every other manufacturer in the world.

Glen
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Well that’s why we never agree on this point!

But you're losing sight of the fact that they haven’t always been as open as rhey are now. Previously if you wanted to know where your classic Triumph was made you had to get into VIN analysis.

Triumph only came ‘clean’ when they moved ALL classic range production out of the U.K.!

For decades Triumph traded HEAVILY on being a British brand. I haven’t been to the NEC show since pre covid, so maybe they’ve toned it down these days, but then they had Union flags and Union flag emblems all over the place at the same time as closing down U.K. production to move it to Thailand.

It doesn’t rub you up the wrong way, it does others. Simple as that really.

Its for such reasons that I like Royal Enfield, they have never draped the bikes or showrooms in Union flags.

Not yet sure about BSA with their daft tiny Union flag on the seat !

And personally I don’t think DOTs even count cos I don’t think they’ll ever be made…
 
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But back to the engine topic…

I think as Clive has said, it’s a very individual issue as to whether a different makers engine would bother folk. And it depends on the genre of the bike, and the characteristics of the engine as well:

Would I care where the engine was sourced in a pure commuter bike (or the rest of it), no.

Would I have bought my 961 if it had an off the shelf perfectly capable but bland engine, no.

Would I buy a Superlight with a suitably breathed on Kawasaki 650 engine, yes.

Would I buy a V4SV with an off the shelf engine, not at £44k no.

Would I have bought my Harley if it had an off the shelf perfectly capable but bland engine, no.

Would I buy an Ariel Ace with a Honda engine, yes.

Can I explain the logic clearly behind all of the above, no !
 
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