Nastiness towards RGM

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Staytite

Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
451
Country flag
I recently received a few items from RGM - Super fast and very nice items that fitted perfectly.

In the little news note by Roger enclosed in the order he complained that both TVS and Andover Norton were trying to get the RGM web site shut down.

Now we know that TVS is trying hard to aleniate us old codgers such that we do not buy their new Nortons as the TVS marketing plan
is to go for the young fashionable, hipsters (or whatever) people market, not old codgers who will spoil the look of the new TVS Nortons.

But I thought Andover Norton, although commercial competitors to RGM, were on friendly terms?

I've spoken to Joe on several occasions over the past few years and seems a good guy, so what's going on ?

Perhaps Madnorton could tell us what's going on ?
 
I thought most of RGM's 'normal' Commando stock was sourced from AN? Always good service from RGM, shame if there is grief afoot..
 
Is this the same story that appeared on the NOC site a few weeks back?

...which is the same story that has been in all the Facebook groups?

...which is the same story that has been mentioned a few times on here?

Clear comments in the below from Ashley and Karl at Andover:

Nastiness towards RGM


Or is there something new happening?

I've bought a LOT from Roger at RGM over the years, and his shipping has always blown me away. He can get stuff here way quicker than people down the street.
I like to buy my Andover bits from him, as it supports both companies.
 
IMHO, this is nothing to do with old codgers being pushed aside and everything to do with trademark protectionism by new owners. If not defended to the legal limits then they cannot claim them as their own. Any new products they bring to market bearing Norton trademarks will be open to knock-off copying etc.
 
Frankly I am not amused by Roger's totally false claim that Andover Norton is trying to close down his website or is acting against him. He should have picked up his phone and talked to either Karl or myself before publishing wild and damaging claims about us and it certainly does not help the relationship between his and our company.

It is probably telling we have never been asked to officially comment. I have one particular forum in mind.

What TVS do is nothing but what should have been done over the last two if not three decades, i.e. the policing of and control over the Norton TM. It is a commercial requirement to keep and defend any TM and, perhaps fortunately, no third party caught on to the fact this wasn't done for a very long time.

The world got used to the TM owners letting the Norton TM be pirated by everybody and his dog. See the mass of unauthorized, mostly low-quality items bearing the Norton scroll offered by many on the net. If rebuilding reputation and getting control over TM and the quality of the items offered is the aim then what TVS do is but the first and fundamental step towards it.

Joe Seifert
 
Spotted this "Norvin" named cruising catamaran using classic Norton scripting, on station as race committee boat during the Olympic Nacra 17 fleet racing event in Japan.

Nastiness towards RGM


Wonder if TVS knows...?
 
As an old time Norton owner this whole thing pis-s me off and no way in hell am I interested in buying a new TVS Norton thy are not reel Norton's nor are they British owned the rest is just lip service!
 
RGM has stellar pick and ship time. I too saw the note Roger put in the packages and waited for ZDF to comment and indeed he has.
I am hard pressed to see why Roger would want to jeopardise his relationship with AN. He has in the past walked a fine line using the Norton trademark. AN has an interest (read: financial) in the trademark dustup and seeing how he has paid for his piece of that pie you cannot really blame him. Yes there have been some quality issues with AN ( and just about anybody else who sells new brit bike bits) but pretty much their stuff tries to pass muster as well as offering nearly a complete catalogue.
 
possm said:
As an old time Norton owner this whole thing pis-s me off and no way in hell am I interested in buying a new TVS Norton thy are not reel Norton's nor are they British owned the rest is just lip service!
Click to expand...
Did you not actually read anything that was posted above ?
 
ZFD said:
Frankly I am not amused by Roger's totally false claim that Andover Norton is trying to close down his website or is acting against him. He should have picked up his phone and talked to either Karl or myself before publishing wild and damaging claims about us and it certainly does not help the relationship between his and our company.

It is probably telling we have never been asked to officially comment. I have one particular forum in mind.

What TVS do is nothing but what should have been done over the last two if not three decades, i.e. the policing of and control over the Norton TM. It is a commercial requirement to keep and defend any TM and, perhaps fortunately, no third party caught on to the fact this wasn't done for a very long time.

The world got used to the TM owners letting the Norton TM be pirated by everybody and his dog. See the mass of unauthorized, mostly low-quality items bearing the Norton scroll offered by many on the net. If rebuilding reputation and getting control over TM and the quality of the items offered is the aim then what TVS do is but the first and fundamental step towards it.

Joe Seifert
Click to expand...

Hello Joe.
I am not in the know, nor do I know any of the parties involved in this unfortunate situation. However, I agree that picking up the phone and clarifying one's thoughts prior action is certainly the better path. Perhaps in the common interest, including the interest of us in the worldwide market, the other party would take the lead and pick up the phone? The collective ship could be righted.

With all respect and good will.
Thank you.

Russ
998cc
 
In my opinion the only people who are going to suffer from a Norton Trade Mark war will be us, the end users of the products. Quality aftermarket parts for our bikes are hard enough to come by already without adding this garbage into the equation. Maybe we will all benefit by the major players (we all know who they are) sitting down and working this shit out. We are all passionate about the brand and want the best for it. We need all of the players to be thinking critically about designing quality innovative products to send to market, not engaged in trade mark disputes. Otherwise we will all be riding something other than our beloved Norton,s.

To all of the suppliers/manufactures of top quality Norton parts, i thank you, because without each and every one of you my old girl (50 this year) would be a rusted out, blown up, pile of crap sitting behind the shed as she had done for the 25 years before i found her.
 
There is nothing to work out, there is only one major player and that is the TM owner. Sing their tune or else, they have the law on their side.
They need to either embrace the classics or not which at the moment is not clear. Mind you the latest financial statement to be found in the gazette is interesting. 10 million loss in the first year, coupled with the initial purchase costs is mounting up and I don't see high end premium bikes making enough profit per unit to ever see a profit on their investment. And what vehicles have they bought that cost £500K.
 
The problem is if they permit non trade mark owners from continuing to use their trademark, even if products are high quality, then TWS will have no legal leg to stand on when poor quality, illegitimate products appear on market from anyone. Either they defend their brand or they do not.
 
I do hope the matter can be resolved amicably with out waste sums of money being paid out & reputations / working alliances left in tatters
Ultimately the lawyers will make .... the customer will loose
 
With all the turmoil, if it becomes unprofitable for anyone to continue supplying Norton spares resulting in no remaining customer base, what then will be the value of the Norton trademark?
 
jseng1 said:
What exactly is the bone of contention? The Norton logo?
Click to expand...
That is what I think is the issue...the letters of ceist and dissist posted so far seem to be about use of the Norton logo on websites, parts and communications to customers. They cannot prevent others from making "aftermarket" parts for our classic bikes if not bearing the logo....at least as far as trademark protectionism goes. If parts are made without permission on any applicable patents, that could be an issue. Also potentially using original design drawings without current owner consent.
 
RGM have probablybeen in business as long as AN . So why is it suddenly an issue 30 or more years down the line.? NVT did not protect the brand, so it has been pretty much a free for all for along time . And who actually owns what- might notbe a simple question... Did SG actually have copyright on all prior manufacture of Norton. Including the rotaries and Bracebridge street?

Was it defended? Is there a statute of limitation ifnot.

The only certainty is that small firms and players cannot afford to get bogged down in the implications of legal stuff, which makes me wonder what is really going on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Schwany
RGM pre-Commando belt clutch experiment for P11
2 3 4 5 6 7
Replies
123
Views
6,267
Schwany
Schwany
W
  • Locked
Layshaft bearing at RGM
Replies
13
Views
1,797
Spooky
S
7
  • Locked
RGM Front Brake Disc Issue
Replies
6
Views
1,224
L.A.B.
L.A.B.
D
Brand new, never used Non folding RGM larger offset kick starter for laydown gearbox P/N A2/360
Replies
1
Views
402
seattle##gs
S
marshg246
AN/RGM/Norvil Why?
Replies
18
Views
1,255
Bonzo
Bonzo
Back
Top