N15CS Thread

skipsoldbikes said:
1960 Norton Nomad with factory original 1.75" crank journals

So you know the history of your engine/bike from new, and no-one has ever tampered with the crank ??
It was all assembled and never opened when you got it . ??
Bike not raced much. And never blown up .....
 
ludwig said:
He bought 5 of these bikes , so at least 5 where built in summer '69 , and given ' Commando' nrs .

Were the Mercuries produced in the time of Commando production given "Commando' numbers too ?
 
Anyone got a photo of the late Royal Enfield Interceptors, with the round tank badge as 'Norton Villiers - Royal Enfield' badges ?

All sorts of crazy mixed-up stuff was going on in those days.
Frank Damp, who worked there, has said a few times that Matchless never made a 2 stroke.
But the Matchless Pinto sold quite a few. Export only ? though, so never saw one....
 
skipsoldbikes said:
The stripping was always silver and not gold on the N15CS, G15CS. The only petrol tanks to have their stripping in gold was the P11A Ranger 750's.Skip

Bu**er! :roll: I just got my local paint guy to make me up some gold paint to use for the pintstriping. Guess I'll have to go back and get some silver...

That's interesting because all of the N15 pics I have seen (usually in the red colour, but occasionally in green) have the striping in gold...
 
Rohan,

Factory records, factory eye witnesses, factory meeting minutes. All proof positive. You asked & answered, now back to N15CS topic or start a new thread.

Skip
 
You throw that bit on the bottom of your posts (mostly), so we thought we would ask.

You got your engine dismantled, didn't you....
 
Thats awesome Ludwig !!!!!! Its not often that these rare bikes have such good paperwork to prove their history . Although some sill wont believe :roll:
Thank you for taking the time to post all the info.

Skip Brolund
 
ludwig said:
Rohan , You know perfectly well that Nortons where consecutive numbered .

I do.
But I thought we should make that perfectly clear here.

Far too many folks misinterpret what is said somewhere, and then repeat it elsewhere.
Sometimes with a slight embellishment - as a type of chinese whispers.

ludwig said:
any more questions

Got a copy of the Factory records page for these. ? !!
Building up stuff from spares is not unknown, especially in the collector motorcycle market these days.

P.S. Would anyone else have a photo of these as they were bought - as a street shot somewhere, say.
Always interesting to see factory fresh bikes photoed....

Cheers !
 
ludwig said:
Rohan , do you look under your bed each time you go to sleep ?

I look most nights.
But Santa still hasn't brought me that old Norton I asked for......
 
Hey Ludwig, that was hilarious!
One of the problems that plagues restorers of all things mechanical is information. Of course, there are people who make stuff up to suit them & it gets repeated, but also the factory information (esp. at Norton) was sketchy at best, I have seen one owner bikes bought from dealerships in colors that werent available that year, & with features that weren't available on that bike. These are bikes that I know the owners personally, not some made up story. Then if you consider the so called "factory documentation", very few people in the world have access to some of this info. I know of one guy who sat at the science museum in the UK for hours & hours transcribing info from films to pen & paper. Some employees took paperwork home with them, who will ever see that info? Some info (and parts for that matter) were just thrown in the trash bin (per Paul Dunstall). So, how is information proven in a case like this??? Paperwork helps, but again, proving anything with factory info, or using the often wrong parts books from Norton, Lucas, Smiths, Girling, etc. Whose to say. I personally would trust provenance over a factory document every day of the week, or a shop employee eye witness over a secretary in the front office .
Off topic on this particular bike, but on the subject of factory records, here is an excerpt from a letter I got from a factory employee about the supposed green candy paint on a G15CS exported to Canada, the subject of "factory records" was challanged & he told me:

" The last batch of 350 singles with Matchless badges left the factory for Rodesia in 1966 with 1/4 inch gutter bolts fixing on the mudguards [ fenders to you lot!]
Ran out of 1/4 BSF hexheads so my mate was sent to local ironmongeers to see " what he could get"!!! Bet that's not recorded in any records!!!"

Just one of several pages of errors I have listed on Norton/AMC errors.
 
Not N15, but pertaining to Norton factory records, I have a 1968 Norton 650ss. I have talked with the original owner, who is three owners back from the person I bought it from. He says he purchased it new from a dealer in Ontario in early 1969. It was sold as a 650 ss and had everything correct for a late 650SS including paint, tach and twin Amal 30mm Concentrics. However, Norton records show that the bike was a Mercury. Did the selling dealer make the changes? Or did Norton build the bike as an SS at the request of the dealer?
I will probably never know.

Glen
 
At risk of sounding like the 'anti-anorak', isn't all of the stuff about needing factory records sort of irrelevant for the average owners amongst us? Unless a person wants a museum quality machine the exact status of his/her bike when it left the factory is irrelevant. In my new and limited experience with Nortons and the people who own them, it strikes me that the most important thing about the bike is not that it is 'just as it left the factory' but that it can be made to run efficiently, using whatever upgrades are necessary.

On a personal note, my primary interest with both the N15 and the Commando is to get them at least looking like they did when when they were built. I do not understand the North American 'thing' about having to paint the bike black, which the previous owners of both of them did. The factory records for my Commando show that it came out in the signal orange colour, and that is how it will end up. With the N15 the records only state the date it left, but not the colour it was painted. Traces of blue under the tank make we want to believe that it was the blue colour. Both bikes are being 'upgraded' with modern stuff to make them more efficient and reliable.

Yes the purists out there will shudder at what I (and many others) are doing to our bikes. Frankly with the plethora of interesting stories emerging about what went on at the factory, who can honestly say that the machine they own now is exactly as it left the factory (unless they have owned it from new) or that it has been 'restored' to factory fresh. Non-standard mudguard/fender bolts anyone? :eek:
 
In order to improve usability/reliability, I have a made a few changes to both my Nortons, so I make no claims about them being totally original bikes. That doesn't mean the history of the bikes and of Nortons in general is unimportant to me, however.
In fact, I think anyone who owns/rides or works on these old bikes is somewhat swept up in the history of them. Why else would we go to so much trouble and expense to own and ride motorcycles that in most every category are outperformed by modern and inexpensive machines?

For me, the more I learn about the history connected to the bike, both the model in general and my machine specifically, more I get out of ownership and usage.

Glen
 
skipsoldbikes said:
" The last batch of 350 singles with Matchless badges left the factory for Rodesia in 1966 with 1/4 inch gutter bolts fixing on the mudguards [ fenders to you lot!]
Ran out of 1/4 BSF hexheads so my mate was sent to local ironmongeers to see " what he could get"!!! Bet that's not recorded in any records!!!"
.

Oddly enough, IF we still had access to the FULL set of factory records, that probably is recorded somewhere - bert would have kept the receipt, and been re-imbursed for it out of petty cash. So the record would exist, in triplicate, somewhere. But not in the VIN records, or the build sheets, granted.

Bit like the old church someone was investigating and researching - and could demonstrate that the nave extensions were built in 1371 AD - because the church records showed they had purchased 3 cwt of lead flashing, @ threepence halfpenny per length.....
 
skipsoldbikes said:
Hey Ludwig, that was hilarious!

Personal abuse and insults, at my expense.
You guys are becoming like your friend BenG.....
 
nickjtc said:
At risk of sounding like the 'anti-anorak',

You say you are an anti-anorak, but are going to paint it strictly factory colors.
Hmmmm.
Welcome to the ..... club !?

Cheers.
 
ALMOST everyone (more of us than will admit?) would like to say "I have the third orange Commando with upgrade tire valves that left the factory in '73", or "this bike is verified by "so-and-so" to be EXACTLY as it left the factory except for the rear inner tube which suffered a puncture on a parade lap at the Isle Of Man in '69", or some other claim to near-fame or near-perfection.

If you round up 100 rivet-counters to examine ANY given bike that is supposedly X, Y, or Z, I guarantee you at least one of them will find fault with the claim(s), that he can back up with some plausible reference.

It's human nature, somewhere along the chain of events from the time that a bike rolled off the assembly line 'till the bike or a collection of most of it's parts, end up before a critical audience, that a claim will be made and challenged. Within that time, the bike will provide one or more people with one or more memorable rides, and one or more disappointments.
 
grandpaul said:
If you round up 100 rivet-counters to examine ANY given bike that is supposedly X, Y, or Z, I guarantee you at least one of them will find fault with the claim(s), that he can back up with some plausible reference.

Usually when you are sitting there with your polished-up pride-n-joy, some member of the public will come up and say 'nice harley' by way of an intro.
And then you realise the rivet counters really don't matter....
 
Berliner also got the new G15/45, as Matchless had bored out the G12 barrels to 77mm, or 738cc—close enough to call it a 750 or 45 cubic inches, and it was advertised in the United States as the Matchless “45.” The cylinders now had eight cooling fins.

http://www.ridermagazine.com/style/vint ... -1963.htm/

N15CS Thread


this ones rivets are all in place , the 150 miles on the magazine test took the milage to 200 . if you believe it .

Made around 62 / 64 , 200 off .

then we all know what happened .
 
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