My Cool 750 Commando

Status
Not open for further replies.
pretty vague info, at best
http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/SI%20Oil.htm
Primary
Either a Monograde Oil, or (better) ATF Oil.
(I use Shell Donax TX)
Click to expand...

along with this
As for the primary drive, oils have changed dramatically since the early seventies, and additives we used to put into our engine oil, like STP, are now already contained in most multigrade oils. These additives are molybdenum (graphite) based, and will give you clutch slip very quickly.
Click to expand...

not much here either
Friends from within the Lubricant industry, as well as Richard Negus, ex-Norton Motors "Chief of Motorcycles, and ex-owner & tuner of the most successful long distance racing Commandos, both confirm that, with the high temperatures combined with the high pressures in a roller-bearing engine, multigrade additives give up quickly and leave you with the base oil within as little as 600 miles- which means you 20W50 becomes 20 oil, which is not up to the job in a Commando engine used properly!
Click to expand...
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_ ... sion_fluid
Current fluids

ATF+4 - Most Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler [9]
Mercon V - Most Ford, Mercury, Lincoln
Mercon LV - Some Ford(DuratecHE), Mazda in Europe or Asia
Dexron VI - Most GM and pre-2004 Toyota products, some Ford applications
ATF DW-1 - All Honda and Acura (except CVT)
SP-IV or SP4 - All Hyundai, Mitsubishi and Kia (except CVT and Dual-clutch transmission)
Matic S, Matic K, Matic D - Jatco transmissions, used in Nissan and Subaru vehicles
ATF TIV(T4) - Most Toyota, Lexus, and Volvo. Some Audi, and Volkswagen
Toyota ATF-WS - All 2004 and later Toyota and Lexus including hybrids
Honda DW ( ZF ) - All Honda Automatic (except CVT)
Click to expand...
 
Bloody can of worms.

I dont advocate TQF as a chain lube as such but as a gear oil.

Having said that 2 sprockets and a chain is a gearbox. I have never experimented
with using it as an engine oil, just thought that with its properties it might be
interesting. I used to regularly change ratios ( twice a weekend sometimes) in
a Hewland FF box and it was nice to see a coating on the gears not a frothy
mess.

I also take point that modern day oils are far removed from those in the 70s
and 80s.

Going back to bed now for a lie down :D :D :D :D
 
pretty vague info, at best
http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/SI%20Oil.htm
Primary
Either a Monograde Oil, or (better) ATF Oil.
(I use Shell Donax TX)
Click to expand...
[/quote]
84ok said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission_fluid
Current fluids

ATF+4 - Most Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler [9]
Mercon V - Most Ford, Mercury, Lincoln
Mercon LV - Some Ford(DuratecHE), Mazda in Europe or Asia
Dexron VI - Most GM and pre-2004 Toyota products, some Ford applications
ATF DW-1 - All Honda and Acura (except CVT)
SP-IV or SP4 - All Hyundai, Mitsubishi and Kia (except CVT and Dual-clutch transmission)
Matic S, Matic K, Matic D - Jatco transmissions, used in Nissan and Subaru vehicles
ATF TIV(T4) - Most Toyota, Lexus, and Volvo. Some Audi, and Volkswagen
Toyota ATF-WS - All 2004 and later Toyota and Lexus including hybrids
Honda DW ( ZF ) - All Honda Automatic (except CVT)
Click to expand...
[/quote]
 
looks like you have trouble with reading comprehension. as I stated the different formulations in ATF are related to the desired shift qualities along with the friction materials used. also you seem to have trouble with thinking it is NOT OK in a manual gearbox when in fact it is the recommended fill in several OE application's. andychain and I both have tried to point this out to you.

needing said:
bill said:
the dexron friction improvers have NOTHING to do with bearings & bushings but the type of friction materiel used in the clutch plates. the type F was formulated way back when Ford used bronze clutch plates and was an old hot rodders trick with organic plates as it made the apply more aggressive. ATF has been in use in manual transmission for a while with the T5 being one of the first, one of the reasons was it used organic cone clutch's instead of brass balk rings in the syncro's. ]
Click to expand...

Hi Bill.

"...NOTHING to do with bearings & bushings..." ?? Just how do bearings and bushes get lubricated inside an automatic transmission if not via the ATF? I am yet to see a grease gun taken to a transmission!
Click to expand...
 
I have neen saying all along TQF auto trans fluid.

I have no idea where the other one came in :( :( :( :(
 
needing said:
Hi Bill.
For the last time, I say again that I use ATF Type F in my bike's primary case as a chain lube that does not cause the clutch to slip in my experience of using it. I do not use ATF in my Commando gearbox or engine and cannot get a response what anyone actually does use and why. Whether ATF of any type as current Original Equipment (OE) car or bike recommended for gearboxes is irrelevant to me as this is the Norton Commando forum.
Click to expand...

It's pretty common for Commando owners to use ATF in the primary if they still have the chain drive. There are reasons not to use 20/50 as recommended by Norton. I'm not really sure what the question that you are asking is. Are you concerned about brand/type? I think there are a number of threads on this if you do a search.
 
needing said:
Hi Bill.
For the last time, I say again that I use ATF Type F in my bike's primary case as a chain lube that does not cause the clutch to slip in my experience of using it. I do not use ATF in my Commando gearbox or engine and cannot get a response what anyone actually does use and why. Whether ATF of any type as current Original Equipment (OE) car or bike recommended for gearboxes is irrelevant to me as this is the Norton Commando forum.
Click to expand...


Bill, not sure if you are asking, but most here use ATF in primary case solely to identify what is leaking. Engine (oil) primary (red ATF) gearbox (stinky gearoil)
The Norton clutch is a "dry" clutch and does not rely on the oil ...its just for the chain.

Tyler
 
OK here is my answer as to primary oil. IMHO with bronze plates type F ATF is fine and with barnett or surflex I would switch to dexron. all formulation's of ATF is a fine luberacant for bushings, bearings and gears and as I told NEEDING the difference is in the desired shift qualities and friction types used. I would NOT use ATF in a MKIII because of the tensioner. as to my bike I use air as it has a belt drive.

my sticking point with needing is 1 he talks about thinking out of the box than when you show him where it is used in and application "it is not a commando" 2 he wants to show what he knows than when called out "it is not a commando"
 
needing said:
I am trying to source a G8 flanged nut to replace my handmade washer and nut anyway. Will let you all know when successful.
Click to expand...

If you have a lathe , you can make them .
I made a couple out of titanium :

My Cool 750 Commando


And then cut square while tightened on the main shaft they will be used on .
The flange does not bear on the raised part of the clutch centre , but further out . ( if yo see wat I mean ..)
Titanium is 'springy' enough , so no tab washer needed :

My Cool 750 Commando


If you want to limit clutch wobble , the clutch centre must run absolutely true to begin with .
 
needing said:
Hi ludwig.
Excellent. I don't have a lathe but reckon if I did I would do what you have done! Also, can't help noticing you've made more than can possibly fit on one clutch. :idea:
Click to expand...

Titanium,.... Veeery expensive material that you wont find at Bunnings or Walmart.. If your lucky enough to "find" some then lucky u. Thats not to mention the top shelf tooling required to fabricate. Wish you luck!

In saying that, you maybe lucky enough to "acquire" the dimensions of the flange nut and get you local machinist to knock up a few.. Tempering treatment required of course....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top