more victor headaches

problem solved? After burrowing into the Victor motor...stripping both sides...I discovered the timing was off by 4 teeth. I could only see the timing mark on the crank gear by shining the light off to one side..direct light and I couldn't see it. Crossing my fingers I corrected the timing and bolted everything up. It was midnight by that time so I will start it up later today.
How I could be off by 4 teeth is a real mystery.
 
That's exactly why I encouraged the valve timing sanity check. You're lucky you didn't cause valve to piston contact. Glad to hear you got it sorted.
 
whenever I build a motor or replace a top end I VERY CARFULLY turn the motor over slowly to feel and look for any binding.
With Nortons I ALWAYS install an oil pressure gauge for the first start up. That is essential.
 
seattle##gs said:
is it possible that in some weird way the compression release is causing the problem?
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The correct setting for the compression lever is to have it just lifting the exhaust valve as the handlebar lever gets to the handlebar. That way you get maximum clearance from the rocker to the actuator in normal running. You do not set it so the exhaust valve is lifted just after the handlebar lever is moved, result is too little clearance and risks the exhaust valve randomly not closing.
 
The lifter is set as your suggestion. In order to put a dial indicator on the valve I will need to make a platform for the magnetic base. The only thing to bolt it down is to remove one of the big head nuts and use that. I tried to start it again after CAREFULLY checking the crank position and Boyer timing. I couldn't be more on target. After a few kicks there was what sounded like a gunshot and then completely unresponsive after that. The new Lead Acid battery has 12.2 volts, about all I can expect from a lead acid battery. Usually the Boyer will still fire correctly even with this low a voltage but maybe not this time? One reason that I don't want to check valve timing is that it is a real bear to R&R the right side case to access the cam gear. I had to do it last night to put the kickstart return spring back on it's peg...it took me 2.5 hours to get the geared clutch pushrod pusher gizmo back into it's position so the lever would be correct. I was just about to give up and make a new cable to get around the problem when, by happenstance, it engaged with the correct tooth. I did slowly turn the motor over watching piston position when the valves were opening and closing......not perfect but I could see it was opening and closing as it should...it wasn't wildly off. To sum up...with the cam gear off 4 teeth it will fire up and run half-assed. With the timing marks on the money it has no chance of running. I'm about to park it on the street with a sign "TAKE THIS, PLEASE!!"
 
seattle##gs said:
The new Lead Acid battery has 12.2 volts, about all I can expect from a lead acid battery.
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The Boyer will probably cope with this but a 12.2V battery if charged recently is on its last legs and needs changing.

more victor headaches



If its not been charged for some time then you need to charge it before attempting again, and if the fuel is old then replace with fresh. A can of easy-start is useful when dealing with a difficult starter.
 
I'll try recharging it. It is only 4 months old and had little use. I put in my own battery AGM and it is 12.5 V. Still no improvement. The gas is new.
The bike ran somewhat when the timing marks (crank and cam) were 4 teeth off. When I put it dead on the timing marks it is miles out of time. The problem is m,uch deeper. Though remote, I suspect the gears have mismarked timing marks.
 
I think you are chasing your tail a little bit
I know it's a pain but I think you are going to have to check everything again
And if you have a known good carb try that if you haven't already done so
Unit single BSAs can be funny with starting,the slide position can be critical to good starting
And you to be past tdc with the exhaust valve starting to open and give it a full swing no throttle
(No doubt you know all this)
If you opened the throttle when kicking my b50 over it'd either kick back or do nothing it wouldn't fire
Recheck all the Boyer connections to make sure they are perfect
 
seattle##gs said:
I'll try recharging it. It is only 4 months old and had little use. I put in my own battery AGM and it is 12.5 V. Still no improvement. The gas is new.
The bike ran somewhat when the timing marks (crank and cam) were 4 teeth off. When I put it dead on the timing marks it is miles out of time. The problem is m,uch deeper. Though remote, I suspect the gears have mismarked timing marks.
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Does your cam gear have two marks ( | and V)? If so, it's crank | to cam V. If the cam gear only has a I then it's | to |

As far as I know, this is true for 1971 and later B25 and B50. The prior B25 and B44 have a different cam part number and the gear only has | so is there a possibility that you have the wrong cam? I only know about 1971 and later B25 and B50 so I don't know the difference except the part number.
 
I have much sympathy for you. I have had two 441's and sold them both because of starting problems. The last one I took to a professional BSA mechanic. He said it would be running in acouple days. Two weeks later it ran when it wanted to! He washed his hands of it said it was the only one he couldn't get running in many years of working on them! We had the timing side apart many times, taking pics before closing up for our own sanity.
 
It has the V mark. I lined it up with the V mark...things got worse. To degree in the cam I have to make a holder for the degree wheel to fit onto the crank. Then I have to make another holder for the magnetic base so I can indicate off the valve caps. Much time involved perhaps all for nothing. I have little enthusiasm at this point.
 
seattle##gs said:
It has the V mark. I lined it up with the V mark...things got worse. To degree in the cam I have to make a holder for the degree wheel to fit onto the crank. Then I have to make another holder for the magnetic base so I can indicate off the valve caps. Much time involved perhaps all for nothing. I have little enthusiasm at this point.
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If you ever ran it | to | then you most likely have a bent intake valve!

more victor headaches
 
I just realized that it's not clear if you're working on a B44 or B50 - Victor can be either! If a B50 then the timing mark is | to V and | to | the intake valve will hit the piston. If B44, there should be no V so you have the wrong cam. So, what year and model is it?
 
seattle##gs said:
It is a Victor Special. late 60's. and has both marks.
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According to what I find in the parts and workshop manuals, you have the wrong cam - it should not have the V and it is a different part number. However, as I said before, I only really know 1971 and later B25 and B50.
 
seattle##gs said:
It has the V mark. I lined it up with the V mark...things got worse. To degree in the cam I have to make a holder for the degree wheel to fit onto the crank. Then I have to make another holder for the magnetic base so I can indicate off the valve caps. Much time involved perhaps all for nothing. I have little enthusiasm at this point.
Click to expand...
You can use a piece of double face tape to stick the degree wheel to the crank. There's no need to make this complicated. The rest can be done with sufficient duct tape and pieces of metal, wood or whatever to hold the mag base in place. All you're needing is repeatability within a degree or two.
 
That's a good idea using the two sided tape, I have plenty of that. I can tape it to the rotor.
 
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