More or Less Quiet Peashooters

Has anyone noticed a difference in the loudness between the different brands of Peashooters? Old Britts lists:
Andover (Made by ?)
Wassell
Emgo
'Made in UK' (Armours?)
I guess there's also Toga and Viking out there. I've noticed that the size and shape of the louvers differs between brands and I recall hearing different bikes with Peashooters having a range as far as loudness goes. I want to find one that's on the quiet side. Thanks.

What year of Commando ?

It probably doesn't help, but the ORIGINAL peashooters on a 1973 850 Roadster had what the parts list called mutes in the end of the mufflers. With them fitted, the mufflers were surprisingly quiet - and met some noise standards, I'd assume. With the mutes removed, the note was a lot stronger.

While they were easy to remove - one little screw, the manual called for a jetting change - think you had to go up 2 main jet sizes with them removed. Those mufflers only had quite small flutes up the walls of the insides, not very many of them either.

I've always wondered who made the original factory fitted peashooter mufflers ??

P.S .I have subsequently fitted something along the lines of those mutes into the ends of something elses' mufflers, and it quietened it down, a lot. Little bits of stainless pipe, and a hammer, took 10 seconds work to fit (hot). Impossible to remove subsequently, though...

Opethiselps.

Exhausts with a balance pipe run quieter while the mutes can kill performance, and some silencers come without any packing so look carefully inside.

Cash

The 72 750s that the Liverpool police used had peashooters with mutes that where part of the silencer ie. not removable. They where slightly quieter but had a lovely rasp on over run. Definetly did not kill performance on my ex police training school bike. I find that the peashooters are fairly quiet when new and get progressivly louder as they tire out the packing - by far the best sounding silencers for a big twin (bonnie included) apart maybe from the old bevel ducatis with contis!

The Andover Norton peashooters are made for us to Norton factory drawing. There are various peashooters in the market- some o.k., some pretty terrible, some thin like a foil just so the chrome doesn't feel lonely out in the air- but the most important thing to look out for is the internals. Toga used to make then for Andover Norton, but for reasons I decline to go into this arrangement was cancelled many years ago. The last Togas I had were changed in the internals, and instead of the "flutes" they just had a tube with holes down the middle. This not only makes a difference in sound, but, more importantly, virtually castrates the bike's power. Other silencers have the (cheaper to produce) multi-chamber arrangement, as on modern silencers. These not only sound like an empty tin- which is what they basically are- but our engines don't like things that are in the way in their silencers.
The "mutes", normally fitted with screws to the end of the silencer, are still available as an OE part# 06-3763. Never used them, but had a set of those original "muted one-piece" silencers recently on the Commando wreck I am currently rebuilding for myself, sold them to a friend with a Triumph. He gave them back commenting on the loss of power and had normal Andover Norton ones instead, which then made him happy.

I have the armours fitted on my MKIII, no real difference in performance compared to the black caps ( both used with original balance pipe exhaust) They are not as load as some peashooters as they seem to have a baffle plate fitted. Many have commented they look and sound nice, I fine them tolerable when doing many miles as well. They don't come with 'Made in England' on them or at least they never used too. They are also seamless and the chrome is very good. I would love them chromed black, but hear that black chrome is soft - maybe Zircotec ceramic coating when I'm richer!!

bpatton said:

I want to find one that's on the quiet side. Thanks.

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Really? :mrgreen:

I had some muted silencers in the 1980's on my former Commando. They were probably pattern, but boy did they kill the power.

When I could evenyually afford some straight throughs, it was as if the engine had been tuned. A lot more power.

Sorry I'm not answering the original question (as I don't know the answer), but I would steer clear of muted silencers unless you like going slow.

I have a 73 850 with what I've been told are stock peashooters. I was told that a quieter version was used in 73. they are obscenely quiet IMO. No mute device in them, just REAL quiet. I'd really like to change them out for a better tone but have not sprung the bucks for that yet.

Irutt, do ya think you might could take a photo of the internal baffle of your quiet open end muffler? Or just look and tell me if the louvers are flats or curved lips or triangles or what?

As I recall it, the peashooters with mutes installed were very torquey under 4000 rpm - it just loped to 80mph. Much more so than with them removed.
Would have been interesting to measure things with a stopwatch ?
And record the fuel consumption...

I seem to recall seeing a magazine article, where they actually put a stopwatch to some bikes with different exhausts installed. While the loudest ones seemed fastest, this didn't actually correspond with what the stopwatch recorded.

Although I see that Nortons Tuning Sheets note that such mods won't meet noise regs, so going faster and making more noise definitely are linked.

ZFD said:

Toga used to make then for Andover Norton, but for reasons I decline to go into this arrangement was cancelled many years ago.

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Does this mean that the folks running Andover Norton then didn't (or couldn't) pay Toga - so Toga wouldn't supply any more free mufflers !!!

Thanks for the reply.
We'll just have to keep speculating what this sentence actually means.
Started your memoirs yet, or keeping notes ?
Going to make interesting reading....

EDIT - much later. Sorry, didn't intend to reflect poorly on Andover Norton,
it was indeed stories of other Norton startups and suppliers that prompted my comment.

I know nobody believes me, but I have a set of 'original' 69 'S' peashooters that have a baffle in the end of them, not the add on one described earlier. Never seen a set like them. Somewhere near the end of the baffles was a block that blocked about 80% of the pipe. It's hard to get a picture of them but here is the best I could do. It's strange too that my 930 carbs were set up with a 240 main jet instead of the standard 220, and the needle jet was a 105 instead of a 107 as standard. It ran fine as far as I could tell at the time, maybe a bit rich, but never had problems until I got a Hooker 2 into 1 and that backfired like crazy. Got another set of semi peashooters in the roadster style and they worked fine without re-jetting. Waiting until we have some nice weather this spring to get it out and test it out with the straight through 'S" peashooters I got from Walridge.



Dave
69S

Madnorton said:

I have the armours fitted on my MKIII, no real difference in performance compared to the black caps ( both used with original balance pipe exhaust)

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MadNorton, how have been able to keep the balanced pipes from cracking?

My headers are just as i got the bike 16 years ago - still intact. The are not original as they have been made up with nice phosphur bronze retainers - I will try and get photos. Where they came from I don't know. I have always followed the method in the manual to fit them - fit everything loosely, then do up from the head if I remember rightly. The one thing I do tend break are the standard rubber silencer mounts. If the headers and balance pipe is cracking it is one of two things - poor fitting or poor manufacture, as the assembly will move with the engine on the isolastics with silencer mounts taking the difference in movement to the frame. Saying all this I bet they crack soon!!!

Rohan said:

ZFD said:

Toga used to make then for Andover Norton, but for reasons I decline to go into this arrangement was cancelled many years ago.

Click to expand...

Does this mean that the folks running Andover Norton then didn't (or couldn't) pay Toga - so Toga wouldn't supply any more free mufflers !!!

Click to expand...

Rohan,
I think you mistake Andover Norton for other outfits sharing a part of the name. Payment was not the problem even at that time- we talk about a decade ago!- but reliabile deliveries.

I was TOGA importer for Germany at the time and delivery was hopeless. I remember being asked by TOGA in winter to give an estimate what I was going to need over the season to give them an idea for their production planning. I handed my requirements in, and the usual thing happened that season yet again- all sorts of obscure pre-unit Triumph silencers that hardly anybody wanted were available from stock, whilst an "exoctic" silencer like the Norton peashooter- our best seller by far, being popular for all British twins- was again never available in any quantity. "Planning" was not a word TOGA had ever come across.

When Andover Norton's then chief buyer severed ties with TOGA I for one wasn't surprised.

Enquire where you want in the industry and you will not find a single supplier who had to wait for his money since I bought the company four years ago. Make sure you mention ANDOVER Norton.

Joe Seifert/Andover Norton

This is all very interesting but what I really want to know...Bob! Are you putting peashooters on your Interstate pipes? What's up?

Russ :shock:

rvich said:

This is all very interesting but what I really want to know...Bob! Are you putting peashooters on your Interstate pipes? What's up?

Russ :shock:

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Russ, No, the exhaust has gone through a couple iterations since that photo. Those Interstate silencers were loud as hell!

bpatton said:

Has anyone noticed a difference in the loudness between the different brands of Peashooters? Old Britts lists:
Andover (Made by ?)
Wassell
Emgo
'Made in UK' (Armours?)
I guess there's also Toga and Viking out there. I've noticed that the size and shape of the louvers differs between brands and I recall hearing different bikes with Peashooters having a range as far as loudness goes. I want to find one that's on the quiet side. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Loudness isn't all that much different IMO. I haven't heard all the brands side by side, but none of the ones I've heard or used impressed me as either very quiet or very loud.

I HAVE, however, felt the difference in seat of the pants. I had a set of Domi Racer pipes that absolutely choked my 850. My brother had unknown brand silencers on his 750 and replaced them with Commando Specialties peashoters and he said it made a huge difference in performance across the band.

So, for a few dB in noise difference you can get big differences in performance. I'm running Wassells now because I like the smooth welds and quality chrome and they breathe well.

For me, one of the joys of the 850 is the "growl' it makes on decel... with the right silencers.

Madnorton said:

If the headers and balance pipe is cracking it is one of two things - poor fitting or poor manufacture, as the assembly will move with the engine on the isolastics with silencer mounts taking the difference in movement to the frame. Saying all this I bet they crack soon!!!

Click to expand...

I've had two sets break. The first set were around 15 years ago and it was probably my fault. I took the cracked pipe to a muffler shop and the guy said it probably wouldn't take a weld very well. He did say that one possible contributing factor was the way the crossover spigot was welded to the header. The hole in the side of the header was much smaller than the inside diameter of the crossover leaving a lot of metal hanging out in the exhaust breeze without much in the way of a heat path to the surrounding metal. It concentrates heat with uneven expansion and contraction that can cause cracking.
The second one was a set of Vikings this winter. They were a set I got around 10 years ago but never used. They are as good as they get. Heavy walled tubing, perfect welds and chrome. When I got them the box had been opened and the protective wrap on one pipe was removed. that pipe had a small scratch on it and I think it might have been returned to the dealer and swapped for another. You can't mix them with the Vikings because they are made as a set. Paul mounts up the pipes on a rig then welds in the crossover spigots as a single tube then cuts them apart. So they line up perfectly but only to each other. They didn't fit too well but I thought I could get away with it. Didn't.