Mikes xs650 breather valve.

htown16 said:

Wel,l I tried the Mikes but ended up taking it off. I would kick the bike over and it would make a wheezing noise with the oil cap off. I'm assuming this was when the pistons were on an up-stroke and drawing air into the crankcase. The valve is one direction only and only flows air out of the crankcase. It blocks any returning air. Maybe it is harmless but I'm breaking the bike in after a complete rebuild and decided not to have one more thing to worry about. After the break-in I may try it again.

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You need to study the basics of how an internal combustion 4 stroke engine works.

I've seen many here try to correct oil seepage with magic sealants and crankshaft seals made of unobtainium but are unsuccessful because the crankcase is pressurized. If your crankcase is pressurized it will probably leak oil somewhere. The reed valve you took off eliminates crankcase pressure. Not only is there less likelihood of oil leakage with a proper reed valve on the crankcase vent, there will be a power gain, albeit small, as well.

Thanks gtiller hollandnortonworks have other than the pcv some nice looking stuff. Tomorrow I will try to order one when I come home from work. The pictures they show of the installation have it close to the oil tank and quite high I would have thought the best place would be as close to the timing exit as possible putting as much pipe behind the valve and not in front.
They also have an anti wet sump valve which has also turned my eye but would also be glad to hear your thoughts.

I fitted one of those HNW reed valves fairly recently, but I can't really comment on experience with it, except to say it definitely works, since the more recent, farcical imposition of parking restrictions where I live means that I have no longer have anywhere to park my bike nearby so it's effectively in storage, possibly until the summer ... A couple of thoughts though – there are mechanically similar valves that attach to the engine, and then the HNW item that they illustrate fitted close to the tank. But, in the brief but perfectly adequate instructions that came with my HNW valve, it just says to fit it 'somewhere' between the engine and the breather inlet hose on the oil tank – I've paraphrased slightly, but those are the two end points that they mean. So, you can fit it near the engine if you want and can find a way: it just needs to be the right way up, which in fact means either horizontal, with the outlet to the tank on top, or vertical, with both inlet and outlet at the bottom. Incidentally I found no way to mount it high up near the oil tank on my Mk2A, because the plastic air box takes up too much space. Instead I fabricated a bracket and hung it vertically off the back end of the left side fitting on the airbox that carries the ignition switch. The rearmost bolt on that fitting is plenty long enough to accept the extra thickness of the bracket I made, probably about 0.080"/2mm. But Constant said that it's possible to heat the plastic of the air box and re-shape it to accept the valve in the upper position. Only, I'd already made my bracket, and didn't fancy messing with the plastic. I'm not sure if any of that helps, except the detail that HNW don't mind where you fit the valve in the breather hose. Cheers.

As gtiller advised I have ordered my PCV Reed valve and another nice looking goodie, the anti wet sump drain valve from hollandnortonworks. Constant was very helpful and said the oil pump must be in good condition so before I fit it I will have it checked out if or overhauled. Any of you out there with experience of this type of valve?

@Woody850 not that one specifically - I haven’t seen that one before and it looks neat!

I personally don’t like one way valves on oil lines - give the valve a suck test before you fit it on your bike, and ask yourself the question ‘can I rely on my 40 year old oil pump to open the valve’

When your oil is cold and thick, the idea just scares me!

Thought we were discussing crankcase breather valves. At worst one could get stuck closed and you would go back to stock pressurized situation. Oil feed valve stuck shut on way to motor would be very bad news.

Never, never put anything between the oil tank and junction block except an oil line. Those spring loaded anti-sump valves are asking for a big load (read expensive) of trouble. Those shut-off valves some use is like playing Russian Roulette. Nothing really dangerous about a sump full of oil, but no oil to the pump will damn sure cause you to rue the day you installed that anti-sump valve in the oil feed line. If you cannot stand wet-sumping, go the AMR route, spring loaded ball on the pump output and "O" ring seals in the oil pump.

Woody850 said:

Constant was very helpful and said the oil pump must be in good condition

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So, helpful Constant can blame the condition of your oil pump when her valve destroys your engine.

Hi,

Just some facts about our ‘anti wet sump valve #H08’. Have been using and selling numerous of these valves for over 5 years now. Never ever had one bad experience reported back to me since.

Triton Thrasher in respect of your remark regarding the oil pump condition please read the information below that comes with our anti wet sump valve.

Thanks

Constant Trossèl
www.hollandnortonworks.eu



Anti Wet Sump Valve [HASHTAG]#H08[/HASHTAG] installation guide

Drain the oil from the oil tank and preferably dismantle it out of the frame, clean out the sludge and dirt of the last 30 years and fit the oil tank back into the frame. Make sure the vent of the oil tank is not blocked (if there is any pressure build-up in the oil tank the AWSV will leak after the engine has been shut off).

If you are not sure about the condition of your oil pump remove the timing cover and unscrew the oil pump. If the gears have side play grind the pump body with the gears installed on a flat surface until you find the gears are grinding as well. Also grind the brass cover if it shows signs of wear from the gears. Aim for side play close to zero. Replace any worn parts such as damaged gears. If the spindles have much play in the body you need a new pump. Install the pump with the correct gasket behind it and tighten the two nuts (or bolts) properly. If you want to be dead sure at all times about the condition of your oil pump and oil pressure it is recommended to fit an oil pressure gauge. This gives you a permanent reading of your oil pressure at all times and lets you know that something is wrong inside before the engine collapses!

Screw and tighten the AWSV in the oil tank using the supplied rubberized washer(s) and fill up the oil tank with fresh oil. Before you reconnect the feed hose (coming from the feed side of the oil pipe junction block on the engine) to the connection pipe of the AWSV make sure you initially fill up this hose with oil. This very important to make the pump suck oil instead of air!

If you are certain that all connections to the oil tank are refitted you can start the engine. Check in the filler opening of the oil tank for oil return (if you have also fitted a new oil filter element it can take about a minute before the oil will return in the oil tank).

When the bike has not been used for a longer period of time it is recommended to check in the filler opening of the oil tank to be sure oil is returning. In the unlikely event that oil is not returning disconnect the feed hose from the AWSV and squirt oil into the hose to fill it up again.

Note: A filter gauze on the AWSV is not necessary because the oil returning from the engine to the oil tank flows through the extern oil filter just before it enters the oil tank and therefore the oil enters the oil tank as filtered as it will get (if you have an early type Commando or Dominator without the extern oil filter I strongly recommend to fit one). So unless you drop dirt into the filler opening of the oil tank the oil will also flow clean filtered into your engine!

Holland Norton Works said:

Hi,

Just some facts about our ‘anti wet sump valve #H08’. Have been using and selling numerous of these valves for over 5 years now. Never ever had one bad experience reported back to me since.

Triton Thrasher in respect of your remark regarding the oil pump condition please read the information below that comes with our anti wet sump valve.

Thanks

Constant Trossèl
www.hollandnortonworks.eu

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Your warning about the pump possibly losing it’s prime would be enough to dissuade me from installing your or any other contrivance in the input side of the oil pump.

This thread could only get weirder if Tim Curry rode in on the elevator...

Holland said:

Never ever had one bad experience reported back to me since.

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I don't believe you.

Triton Thrasher said:

I don't believe you.

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I was thinking the same.

If I were Constant, I wouldn't appreciate being called a liar, whatever your doubts might be. I think the point is, if you want to go down that route, then you must follow the instructions – surely this is such a hoary old chestnut by now that you'd have to be a fool not to. On the other hand, I'm not keen on the idea myself, even though my oil pump can't be more than about 15,000 miles old, and I'm waiting on someone in the UK to start offering something like the AMR fix.

Believing… Thinking…? Gentlemen I am talking about facts. Like I mentioned before not a single bad experience has been reported about our anti wet sump valve. Honestly it wouldn’t be very wise and rather destructive to HNW reputation to make this statement and knowing there are customers that could possibly reveal a known bad experience on the internet.

The main reason why I supply this valve is that I experienced it to be a simple, reliable and effective modification to prevent wet sumping however if you have any doubts well I can’t please everyone so just don’t fit it.

Constant Trossèl
www.hollandnortonworks.eu

Holland Norton Works said:

Believing… Thinking…? Gentlemen I am talking about facts. Like I mentioned before not a single bad experience has been reported about our anti wet sump valve. Honestly it wouldn’t be very wise and rather destructive to HNW reputation to make this statement and knowing there are customers that could possibly reveal a known bad experience on the internet.

The main reason why I supply this valve is that I experienced it to be a simple, reliable and effective modification to prevent wet sumping however if you have any doubts well I can’t please everyone so just don’t fit it.

Constant Trossèl
www.hollandnortonworks.eu

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While you supposedly have had no reported failures with your in-line spring loaded valve there have been reports of failures with in-line spring loaded valves from members right here. Personally, I would heed the advice given in your last sentence, “just don’t fit it”.

It contravenes physics and common sense to install anything in the oil pump inlet line that can obstruct oil flow to said pump.

My MK111 had thrown a rod before I bought it. Seems an inline anti-drain valve had been installed by the P.O.

Wet sump is desirable as splash oils dry cam lobes on first rotation instead of waiting about a min to get head oil enough to drain onto lobes. There is no way to hydrolock a Commando and decent condition crank seals will not blow out. All the reed and PCV valves are made for much greater pulsing volumes for 2 stroke piston volumes and car size engines so the flappers are too big/heavy to work beyond barely below ambiant unless blow by wore rings at hi rpm. I'm going with a tiny lawnmower flapper valve in my factory Combat and exhaust sucker on my special.

i"d be pensive of inline drain check valves with nil benefits but great once in a while risk. I'd be more interested in an intake vacuum activated valve not dependent on slight pressure differences, memory to open a valve or electricity connections to flow enough every time.

Triton Thrasher said:

Don't think anybody called him anything, but a disappointed customer being told they're the first ever to report a problem with a particular product is something of a Cliché in the old bike business.

Also- this isn't paid-for advertising space. It's a discussion forum, where our statements may be criticised or contradicted.

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